Taking Stock: Will Nicolas Batum Ever Be a Star?
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/10/2013 2:05 PM

    I never considered about, or diminished capacity a pure stat, like I said, 50% is not even in the ballpark. As to his agent and the state of the Blazers when Nic considered the Wolves, not many players would have done anything differently. We had no coach, a new GM, Raymond Felton and Jamal Crawford still on the roster and it looked pretty bleak in Portland. Shaq sat out more games and only showed up for the post season as a Laker. Injuries are not a judge of a player's value to a team unless they don't get on the court aka Greg Oden. I get it, you don't like Nic Batum but exaggerating stats is unfair to him irregardless. Nic has not been an option most of the Nate years. Felton and Crawford were not famous for sharing the ball in the lockout season. Stotts has been great for Nic and like all the players, they are learning a new system. I'm in Olshey's court on this. I like Batum as a Blazer and see him as an importance piece going forward. He's not old. He's improving and he made a smart business move. Hibbert stated he wanted to come to Portland but I'm sure Pacers fans don't hate him this season for it. He did not do what Dwight Howard did and demand a trade. The Wolves made him a great offer. We made Hibbert a great offer. Both players got matched and it's time to move on.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/10/2013 2:33 PM

    Posted By riverman on 05/10/2013 11:11 AM
    Batum's agent spun a lot of media press getting Nic the best deal and it worked. Batum said he knew he'd be back in Portland but any savvy businesman would maximize profits for his client while the opportunity was there. Neil Olshey sat down with Nic when we matched and said he'd been in contact with Batum through the process and the whole thing was publicly embarrassing to Nic. Nic's agent did what he's paid to do and if the Blazers didn't match, Nic wanted to play for a good coach. At that point the Blazers didn't have a coach if you remember correctly. Seeing as how it was possible for the Blazers not to match the Wolves offer, Nic was showing optimism if the change happened. It wasn't all in Nic's hands to make a choice because he was restricted. Big difference from choosing a team as a free agent. None of the current players have complained their way out of Portland. I don't think your 50% stat on Nics health is even close to accurate.

    yea I guess that article about the whole conversation niel olshey had with nic was only read by me and you lol 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/10/2013 2:37 PM

    I read it and as I said, he was covering his ass and was doing the Michael Jackson Moonwalk.

     

     

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/10/2013 3:12 PM

    More derogatory remarks, man Maniac, face it, you just really hate the guy. That's no reason to rant and after all, it's ancient history at this point. You and I have opposite opinions about Nic's character. I think he's a high character guy across the board but you keep wanting to paint him as the enemy here. I think he's a keeper, you think he's a bust. I also think Michael Jackson's moonwalk was great and I prefer players who wear clothing to those who walk around with their ass hanging out.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/10/2013 8:04 PM

    Maniac your starting to just sound vindictive rather than justified. Nics toughness, consistency and huge contract can be call into question as can his ball handling and aggression on offense but your just flat out attacking Batum the person reel it in man.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/10/2013 9:52 PM

    Cmeesee47 - Thank you for speaking sense to me. Sometimes I get so passionate about this team; I can tend to go off the deep end. I apologize to all whom I offended.

     

    Bottom line, I wish we could but Wes's heart and desire in Batum's body. Then Batum would be unstoppable.

    I hate it when I see players who have God Given Talents like Batum and he does not use them to his fullest ability.

     

    Wes has probably 40% less the talent that Nico does. But who shows up to play every night with determination and heart.  Not Nico, but Wes. 

    Riverman, let me clarify to you, I do not hate the guy. I do hate the way he wastes his talent and hurts the team. Secondly, I hate his inconsistent play and his disappearing acts. Finally, to clarify my statement above, if you took it as derogatory that was not my intent, just making a frank observation about his behavior last summer and the fact that he point blank said (not his agent) that he did not want to play in Portland. Then, this is a fact, that after Portland matched the offer sheet, he changed his mind and all of a sudden he wanted to play for Portland.

     

    Look, I look at facts and his history, not his potential. We have been waiting for his potential now for 5 Full Years.  I gave him grace on his first year and he really was a bad player. I laid out today that in the last four years he has lost 1/3 of his games either where he was out with an injury, or where he played in a diminished capacity because he had an injury. Then you factor the games where he was mentally checked out or disappeared all together and that gets you to the 40% or so of his games in the last four years where he was useless to the team.

     

    So the question is, do we wait for his potential, or use the entire NBA free world who says he is a great player and use that free advertising to leverage a good trade for him?

     

    I think this is the best time to trade him.  I do not hate him, I hope he succeeds, but after five years in Portland I do not think his success will appear here.

     

    Again, I apologize to all the Batum fans who think I hate him.  I do not.  I just want him to play to his potential as all you want him to every game, not 60% of the time.  Is that too much to ask for $11M per year? 

     

    Thanks cmeese

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/10/2013 10:00 PM

    how can he this is his first year really having a significant role on the team in a new system alot of ppl tend to forget he played his career as a catch and shoot guy and never really was given a chance til now to be anything more then that and personally I think he's gonna be alot better next season with some work this off season 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/10/2013 10:07 PM

     

     

    I hope he plays he simmer league like Wes does!

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/11/2013 2:07 AM

    Yeah, will Summer League be broadcast on TV? And you're right Blaser. He needs to adapt to his role. If you switch a SF up to a stretch 4, he's not immediately going to be effective, he takes some time to figure it out. Same way, remember how Chauncey Billups went from a playmaker to a catch and shoot guy? Took about a year, but he's pretty good now.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/11/2013 10:03 AM

    Maniac your diminished capacity argument is flawed Nico mentally checking out was still better than what we had backing him up.  I would much rather see a 50% Batum than any Babbitt.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/11/2013 11:04 AM

    Whats wrong with some of the guys assess hanging out?
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/11/2013 11:08 AM

    lying to get more money? thats always commendable
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/11/2013 11:15 AM

    LOL Chloe

    Wes is making 6 million a year for shooting 3s, and playing D. Wes gives us leadership but a healthy Batum gives us much more on the court. I would trade Wes before I trade Batum unless Batum gets us a legit player

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/11/2013 12:06 PM

    umm this is a business before anything any real manager will do that for you it's common sense your hired to get your player the best deal for the most money you possibly can it's common sense other wise there would be no need for management companys 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/11/2013 1:29 PM

    Thats society for ya,money by any means necissary,yet people agree with it. If he really didnt feel that way,then thats lying plain and simple,lying for more cash.
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/11/2013 3:40 PM

    Hating Batum cause he is French should be enough. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/11/2013 4:48 PM

    Was that sarcasm or an insult to all the French players and French fans who are Blazer fans? I would hope American players in France wouldn't have the same said about them.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/11/2013 9:44 PM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 05/11/2013 1:29 PM
    Thats society for ya,money by any means necissary,yet people agree with it. If he really didnt feel that way,then thats lying plain and simple,lying for more cash.

    your super emotional like most fans dude never once said anything bad about portland he didn't say "portland is one giant shit hole" or anything all he said was he preferred to play in minnesota @ the time so your really over reacting to begin with 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/11/2013 9:48 PM

    and ppl tend to forget this is a job would you rather stay at a minumum wage job you've been working at for years if you had an offer to go lets say (insert your dream job here) for 10 or more bucks an hour? it's the same concept really 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/12/2013 1:25 AM

    And what's wrong with the French Cmeese?

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/12/2013 8:58 AM

    not even the same concept cause its the same job in either place,and more money or the same money to stay where you are,I just dont think people should lie just to get cash,thats all,who knows,i mean your basically implying that his manager would have him say whatever it takes to pump his contract as high as possible and thats sad but its also the truth about society,get as much as you can no matter what it takes.
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/12/2013 9:00 AM

    Im British and I can tell you firsthand the french do smell.lol
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/12/2013 9:06 AM

    well thats pretty much a managers job is to land a player the best deal possible if that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any use of a manager 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 05/12/2013 9:19 AM

    I have always known the French to be exceedingly arrogant, they also tend to play a softer form of basketball compared to the Americans.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/12/2013 9:49 AM

    I've never heard such a line of crap in my life. Get over yourselves with the stereotypes. Your insults to nationalities are childish and lack any semblance of high character. I would state you'd never say any of these things to Batum, Parker, Noah, Diaw or any French NBA player. Hide behind your keyboards but this is pure cowardly behavior. My dear departed mother was half French and the cleanest, friendliest, humblest human I've ever met. Arrogance is flaunting some superiority of comparison. I have many friends and relatives from overseas and your words are those of the ugly american. Perhaps you should study civil rights history and grow up. Saying things like you've stated just show ignorance. How do you know French fans don't visit this site. If I were a moderator I'd block you from posting here. MODERATERS are you reading these posts?
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/12/2013 10:32 AM

    River maybe the man never met your mother or many French people, I went to Paris, France a few years ago and the people there were very smug. I just attributed it to dealing with tourists all the time.  Note once I got out of Paris the people were highly hospitable as long as I was not trying to speak and thus butcher their language. 


    I think Noah by himself certainly dispels the soft French player, then again Noah was born in New York and grew up playing ball in America while Batum came over from the French system. I think the emphasis on finesse basketball in Europe certainly presents a less physical form of basketball and thus the argument that French players are softer than their American counter parts. 


    For the record some French are arrogant, some Americans are arrogant these are just facts.  It does not make either bad people but it is typically best to avoid generalizations as it just makes you look ignorant when someone proves you wrong.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/12/2013 11:26 AM

    Wow, went to sleep with a decent discussion (borderline argument but all in good spirit) about Nic Batum, and woke up to this. You know many French people Billy? How can you say that the French are 'exceedingly arrogant'? Maybe you had a bad experience with a frenchman but that doesn't mean the whole race is arrogant. What if someone think of your people like that?

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/12/2013 11:49 AM

    Have you traveled outside the US Ripcity most other countries have that exact same feeling about Americans. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/12/2013 12:03 PM

    I lived and worked overseas for 20 years. I never got that impression and again, there go more generalities. I sincerely hope Batum's family, relatives, fans and friends,especially the children who also have internet access  from France don't read this thread. It's an embarrassment to the Blazer nation. My wife of 24 years was born overseas and just recently became an American citizen. My foreign inlaws have no negative stereotypes about Americans. Assuming that we are uninformed or globally ignorant is not helping the cause here cmeese. My experience in the world has been overwhelmingly positive. It's not 1947. Assuming that fans here have never left the country is a generalization. There are simply no excuses for shallow minded rants against people they don't know. I'm formally logging a complaint with the Blazers organization in protest of these horrible posts. The fan site is losing visitors left and right and this is one of the reasons. Insults have no place on a fan site.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/12/2013 12:28 PM

    Cmeese, I have never even been to the US, because I am not American. And I can assure you, in my country, while like any other there are people who don't like the US, most us simply don't care. It doesn't make a difference to us what nationality you are, just that you are a decent person. Most of my countrymen have too many problems of their own to think about these things.

    Riverman, if my numerous hours watching American crime shows is right, doesn't your wife automatically get citizenship if she marries a US Citizen?

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 05/12/2013 12:41 PM

    No, she studied for it and took the test in Portland. You can automatilcally get residence which you also need to apply for but it's not given without medical tests, background checks and knowledge of basic American government and history. I am very, very proud of her. Being married speeds up the process and allows you to get it done in about 6 months instead of a long waiting list for interviews. If you're child is born here, they automatically get citizenship if one parent is an American.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/12/2013 2:33 PM

    Sounds fair enough. Always wanted to know, is Portland really that weird? Like is it very hipster, or just odd?

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 05/12/2013 7:00 PM

    It's a little of both RC you can pretty much find your place here since we have all kinds of people and that's why I'm proud to be born and raised here there's no other place like it that's from my experience of course. I think this thread topic is over most of the fans here has shared their opinion on Batum and now were going off the deep end that's one of the reasons why I don't post as much we go to far sometimes you have to realize that even though it a handful of us we represent this fan base and sometimes I don't understand how we get the media attention that our fan base gets when we act like this the thing people don't do anymore is that they don't think before they speak and they uses that "it's Freedom of Speech" line and that's true but, it also comes with a responsibility you can't hide behind that just so that you can talk bad about a person or a nationality.

     

    It's seems that everyone forgets about the "Golden Rule" nowadays "Treat others the way you want to be treated. 

     

     

    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 05/12/2013 7:44 PM

    The reaction on here seems like I dropped a racial slur. Maybe not all French are arrogant, which they probably are not but the ones I have met are but the ones I have met have been every bit as arrogant as I am if not more. River I never met your mother but I believe you when you say she was everything you said and more. 


    Batum has always seemed smug to me that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I need to avoid generalized comments that was wrong. If Batums children are offended by such generic comments then I feel bad for their sheltered existence. I grew up in Oakland and had to worry about getting shot or stabbed at school if all they have to worry about is silly Internet posts than they have it well, which is what everyone deserves. 

  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 05/12/2013 8:00 PM

    It just seem some people are more sensitive than others billy to be honest I don't think what you said is that bad it was just from your experience I've seen a lot worse posts than what you said I do feel people need to watch what they say but, at the same time we sometimes need to stop being overly sensitive.
    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 05/12/2013 8:06 PM

    Thanks Carl, river I never meant any insult to your family. 

  1. sug81
    sug81
    Posts: 254

    Posted 05/12/2013 8:52 PM

    There are arrogant people and humble people of all nationalities, geesh.

    I am a fan of that GRIT & GRIND
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 05/13/2013 6:03 AM

    actually theres a huge percantage of ppl that don't like america cause we try to play world police and think it's cool to get involved in everyone elses business it's true lol 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/13/2013 8:46 AM

    True dat,alot of people are tired of us playing world police,aint that the truth
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 05/13/2013 8:47 AM

    I always find it a little suspect when I see Lillard's anti-bullying campaign light up the trail blazers website.. and then come to the forum and see that "French people are arrogant" ... and that the people who take offense to that are "overly sensitive"..... I'm not even going to go back to the countless other times people have gone at it in these forums with overly personal stabs even just within the last month.

    And I am not "he who can cast the first stone." I don't need an apology from Billy, or anyone. But I'm just saying to be aware that one action or statement creates a ripple. You may not realize where that ripple ends up affecting. I'd hate to see anyone ever experience bullying as a kid or raise a kid who has been bullied. If you signed the ledger from Damian.. If you even looked at it and thought it was a really great thing what he is doing. Then just be aware, that's all I suggest. But, after all, I'm just a guy, I don't know it all. Just food for thought.
    I am a fan of
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/13/2013 9:38 AM

    I get your point Knorton but I also think there is a major distinction between calling someone arrogant and calling someone a homo, or a racial slur. 


    I seriously doubt that anyone ever committed suicide by being called arrogant, I know for a fact that calling someone fat can have that result. I know for a fact making fun of someones sexuality can have that result. 


    I think that is an important distinction. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/13/2013 9:50 AM

    yes Cmeese,making fun of someones sexuality can definatley have that result
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/13/2013 10:39 AM

    Right, so if we can all just get back to arguing whether Nic Batum is a star or not, that'd be great.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 05/13/2013 10:47 AM

    Well he's not a star,plain and simple,so thats that
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/13/2013 3:56 PM

    Not yet, but he will be. I would like to place a wager. Gentleman's wager, no money or nothing. Nic Batum will be a star next year. Not an All Star, but one of our best. And you will admit it.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/13/2013 4:13 PM

    Best case scenario Batum will go back to 16-17 pts  5-6 rebs  5-6 ast and 1 stl 1 blk which would be AWESOME

    Worst case scenario is he will play like he did post injury last seaso

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 05/13/2013 5:27 PM

    Thanks for proving my point Knorton and last time I check billy didn't apologize to you anyway, I said earlier Nic doesn't need to be a "star" he needs to be an All Star and play at an All Star level so this next season his mindset should be All Star appearance or bust because LA and Dame are the "stars" on this team.
    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/13/2013 6:35 PM

    17 6 and 5 with improved defense would be nice.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/13/2013 6:48 PM

    Im not sure he can get back to that. Theres a chance that he gets comfortable just shooting 3s and stays around the 12-14 ppg range

    Then I would unload him because that wouldnt be worth 11mill

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/13/2013 7:08 PM

    That's what I'm afraid of Siccolo. That and LMA is going to be 29 soon.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
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