What to do with JJ Hickson?
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  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 12/28/2012 11:48 AM



    This seems to be the question that always pops up when discussing trades and free agency. Right now, JJ Hickson is arguable Portland's second-best player, behind Damian Lillard. Despite being an undersized center nad playing out of position, Hickson has transformed his game this season and the results have been amazing. There is no way Portland would be anywhere near .500 without Hickson's services. JJ's the closest thing we've seen to Brian Grant since the Rasta Monsta took Rip City by storm. And while he doesn't have Rasta's signature dreads, he has even better stats. During BG's hey-day back in the late 90's/early 2000's, he was good for 11.5 points and 10 boards a night. Currently, JJ is producing 12 points and 11.5 rebounds this season. He's near the Top 5 in rebounds per game and has racked up 9 straight double-double. But here's the catch...

    JJ's a free-agent at the end of the season and there's no way he's coming back at his rate of $4 million/season. He's playing himself into a Batum-esque contract. Which leads to my original thought. What do we do? If we keep him, we get this decade's Brian Grant but he'll essentially eat up all of our cap room. Or we can sell-high and look to move him. You know teams will be lining up to get their hands on a 24-year old double-double machine. And you figure the Trail Blazers aren't moving Lillard, Aldridge, or Batum so if they were to make a move at the deadline, really only Matthews and Hickson are our trade bait.

    Personally, I keep him. He's a fan favorite and he loves the fans. He really opened up this season, especially on Social Media and he's become the heart of this squad. While he gets double-double's on the reg, there's not a stat for keeping plays alive or constantly diving on the floor for loose balls which he's be Top 10 in the league, no doubt. What we are trying to build here in Portland is a championship. And all championship contending teams have a player like Hickson on their roster. I'm not expecting him to give us a hometown discount when it comes to free agency, but he'll be worth every dollar if he continues this type of play. Finally, I'd like to point out that those deep Blazer teams 10+ years ago never were the same once the team decided they weren't going to pay Brian Grant and dealt him for Shawn Kemp. The grass isn't always greener and if you've got a good thing going, why mess it up?


    I am a fan of
  1. abarrer3
    abarrer3
    Posts: 271

    Posted 12/28/2012 12:04 PM

    I agree with keeping Hickson... I always have a hope that next year he would want to return, and would also be fine with having a bench role. I think he loves Portland enough to possibly accept a backup PF role so that there is room for a true starting center and maybe like a jj redick for sixth man

    I am a fan of
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 12:05 PM

    To know where I stand on the Hickson debate, all one has to do is look at my fan statement below.  For me personally, I would like to keep Hicky and keep our lotto pick.  Olshea has said it from the beginning.  He is here to help build a perennial power, not a one and done.  Olshea is the smartest of the three little pigs, and THAT I am a fan of.  "Sustainable success" are the words Portland's GM has used repeatedly.  That said, if a quality 5 can be the return on a Hickson deal, I wouldn't be opposed.


    Bottom line.  While I LOVE Hicky, I TRUST Olshea and the direction of this franchise.  Clips have won how many in a row now?

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 12/28/2012 12:14 PM

    You and I share the same thoughts. JJ is one of my favorite players right now. This is what I would do..

    Sign Hickson to whatever contract seems appropriate for him. Then do what we are doing right now start him and LA.

    But find another bigman. This bigman can play 4/5 and is defensive minded and will come off the bench and play 20-25 mins a game. He will fill a role that Javale Mcgee, Carl Landry, Larry Sanders, and a lot of other big men in the league. 

    Players i am thinking of that are Available are: Samuel Dalembert,  Ekpe Udoh, Kwame Brown, Zaza Pachulia. Then this guy can come and rebound and defend. He can play alongside LA, Hickson and Leonard.

    Hickson is a guy that does not come around a lot. If we trade him, I guarantee there is NO ONE  that will rebound, and hustle like Hickson. And the guy is like 24, we cant give this guy up.......BUT if FO does decide to trade him I


    I would look for deals with Phily to grab Hawes/Kwame and TYoung/NYoung for Hickson. Or Larry Sanders and Hickson package.....id rather keep JJ though

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/28/2012 1:50 PM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/28/2012 12:05 PM

    To know where I stand on the Hickson debate, all one has to do is look at my fan statement below.  For me personally, I would like to keep Hicky and keep our lotto pick.  Olshea has said it from the beginning.  He is here to help build a perennial power, not a one and done.  Olshea is the smartest of the three little pigs, and THAT I am a fan of.  "Sustainable success" are the words Portland's GM has used repeatedly.  That said, if a quality 5 can be the return on a Hickson deal, I wouldn't be opposed.


    Bottom line.  While I LOVE Hicky, I TRUST Olshea and the direction of this franchise.  Clips have won how many in a row now?


    Olshey did not have a thing to do with them signing Crawford, Barnes, or developing Bledsoe. Making the move for Paul was of course brilliant but let's see what he does for Portland before we give him our blind faith.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Nuno
    Nuno
    Posts: 212

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:10 PM

    i think we should keep JJ (around 7M ) and try to get Jermanine Oneal from Phoenix, he would be a a good adition to the team. He has experience and is a good defender, he would be the big man in the defense blazer need. There is also a FA guard, Jordan  Farmar that would be a good shooter coming of the bench...
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:17 PM

    True enough meese.  You play Bledsoe, Crawford, and Barnes and I'll raise you a Lillard, Leonard, JJ Hickson, and Batum.  

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:23 PM

    Lillard was an easy pick so Olshey gets no credit for that nor does he for resigning JJ or Batum. Leonard has not proven anything yet. 

    Olshey's one move of the summer was a thankfully failed attempt to sign Roy Hibbert.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:38 PM

    Re: the failed signing of Roy Hibbert...different system and supporting cast in Portland.  When you alter a recipe, you inherently alter the taste.  Impossible to guage factually whether Hibbert would have been worth his contract here in Portland.  Far too many unknowns.  

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:42 PM

    The best thing to do with JJ is pass him the ball
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:48 PM

    @ meese...we could banter back and forth all day, name and stat dropping, however...the truth is, because neither of us was a fly on the wall during the FA period, on draft day in the war room, and/or during negotiations with Nic and his agent...we simply don't know to what degree Olshea was involved.  My position is simply this.  Only positive things seem to be happening where Olshea has most recently been, thus...my trust.  Certainly the positives are outweighing the negatives at this point on the man's resume.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 2:50 PM


    Posted By riverman on 12/28/2012 2:42 PM
    The best thing to do with JJ is pass him the ball

    Second best, and not by a wide margin...have Hakeem show him what to do with it once he gets it
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. DaBlazer
    DaBlazer
    Posts: 13

    Posted 12/28/2012 3:04 PM

    Keep him where he is!! Hes amazing,he can get the tip off almost whenever he wants to ,he rebounds like crazy,he scores frequentaly,and his FG percentage is GREAT.Keep him as a center and starter for atleast the season and you will see....
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/28/2012 4:08 PM

    Posted By Siccolo on 12/28/2012 12:14 PM

    You and I share the same thoughts. JJ is one of my favorite players right now. This is what I would do..

    Sign Hickson to whatever contract seems appropriate for him. Then do what we are doing right now start him and LA.

    But find another bigman. This bigman can play 4/5 and is defensive minded and will come off the bench and play 20-25 mins a game. He will fill a role that Javale Mcgee, Carl Landry, Larry Sanders, and a lot of other big men in the league. 

    Players i am thinking of that are Available are: Samuel Dalembert,  Ekpe Udoh, Kwame Brown, Zaza Pachulia. Then this guy can come and rebound and defend. He can play alongside LA, Hickson and Leonard.

    Hickson is a guy that does not come around a lot. If we trade him, I guarantee there is NO ONE  that will rebound, and hustle like Hickson. And the guy is like 24, we cant give this guy up.......BUT if FO does decide to trade him I


    I would look for deals with Phily to grab Hawes/Kwame and TYoung/NYoung for Hickson. Or Larry Sanders and Hickson package.....id rather keep JJ though


    idk I'm having a hard time understanding why we need another big off the bench to play ahead of leonard I thought the whole idea was to develop leonard yet you wanna put him as the third big off the bench and give him significantly less minutes? I can see a starting c but a back up c so we can move leonard further down the bench isn't exactly gonna help develop the kid 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 12/28/2012 4:40 PM

    To be honest, I dont care if Leonard gets less mins if one of the guys I listed are taking his mins. Leonard can benefit on the defensive end by learning from a defensive minded veteran. 

    You can play 4 big men 

    Mareese Speights, ZBO, Marc Gasol, Darrel Arthur- 

    Kevin Garnett, Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger, Collins, Jeff Green at times

    David Lee, Carl Landry, Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green at times, Andrew Bogut and Biedrins also

    David West, Roy Hibbert, Ian Mahimi, Tyler Hansbroug

    Greg Smith, Patrick Patterson, Omar Asik, Marcus Morris

    Paul Milsap, Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter


    All these teams are TOP 10 IN REBOUNDING 

    Portland is tied for 20 in rebounding. If the playoff started today we would be the 8th seed. If we really wanted to develop players dont you guys think,  Nolan, Claver, Freeland, and Barton would get more minutes??

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. Nuno
    Nuno
    Posts: 212

    Posted 12/28/2012 5:30 PM

    Totally agree with you Siccolo, 3/4 big mans is what a good defending/rebounding team need, we only have 2, aldrigde and hickson, and some Leonard... so another big man is needed i think. About Barton, last game he got some more minutes and showd nice skils, he could be a good surprise if he keeps doing well.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 12/28/2012 11:01 PM

    Thank you lol cant have enough bigmen lol....agree with Barton he is gonna be a beast

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 12/28/2012 11:17 PM

    You keep JJ. He's a terrific Blazer.
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/28/2012 11:28 PM

    Problem with keeping Hickson is doing so would likely mean a very similar roster next season, as his new contract would eat up alot of Portland's cap...something Blazer Fanatic has discussed in other threads.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 12/29/2012 8:12 AM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/28/2012 11:28 PM
    Problem with keeping Hickson is doing so would likely mean a very similar roster next season, as his new contract would eat up alot of Portland's cap...something Blazer Fanatic has discussed in other threads.

    You want to win don't you? JJ in a winner. I'm done hearing about salary cap when it comes to a talented baller like Hickson. It's not our call how much Hickson should get paid. It's a simple fact that JJ has earned a roster spot on this team, and should be given a contract. If Portland wants another big lunker in the middle, then they can go get one. But you keep JJ Hickson. Look to move a different Blazer or two if you want to clear cap space, not JJ.
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/29/2012 8:24 AM

    Keep Hickson! Why is it even a question,cause he had a bad game against the lakers and dwight howard, he just doesnt have alot of help on the rebounding end,cause Aldridge is a jump shooter,see how Jordan Hill abosolutley Dominated us on the offensive glass,and Pau Gasol had his Best game in a Long time.
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 12/29/2012 12:35 PM

    He's a great pleyer, a great piece, love the guy and love him in a Blazers uniform. But I don't see us paying him big bucks in a long term contract. With a heavy contract to him what's that leave for adding other plays? Remember wei're losing nolan, elliot, & babbitt. And we already have a gaping problem at the bench. That problem only gets bigger if/when you start adding more and more larger contracts. We would need to get a homer discount from JJ in order to keep him, to me. So start showing him some Twitter love!

    But all in all this is partially why I see us doing a trade now for someone(s) with a decent contract (not too much $, over a span of some time) who can provide us with good bench role(s)  either for JJ or for the combination of Babbit, Nolan & Pavlovic (even tho I love Pavlovic)

    I am a fan of
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/30/2012 9:46 AM

    well,if we don't keep Hickson,then we got serious problems,how are we supposed to go get other players if we cant even keep our own players,and what kinda message would that send to player who potentially could sign here,it sends the wrong message,to fans,to potential free agents,to our players as well,just bad all around
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/31/2012 4:51 PM

    Posted By Tobyus Sanchezo on 12/29/2012 8:12 AM
    Posted By BDawg on 12/28/2012 11:28 PM
    Problem with keeping Hickson is doing so would likely mean a very similar roster next season, as his new contract would eat up alot of Portland's cap...something Blazer Fanatic has discussed in other threads.

    You want to win don't you? JJ in a winner. I'm done hearing about salary cap when it comes to a talented baller like Hickson. It's not our call how much Hickson should get paid. It's a simple fact that JJ has earned a roster spot on this team, and should be given a contract. If Portland wants another big lunker in the middle, then they can go get one. But you keep JJ Hickson. Look to move a different Blazer or two if you want to clear cap space, not JJ.

    I am tired of hearing about JJ sucking up Salary Cap Space.  He has earned a spot on this team pure & simple.  He has everything you want in a good Baller on this team.  Someone who is going to go in a play in the paint, and do the things that LA & Batum do now want to do which is rebound consistently. (I know I an going to hear about it from Fanatic but could care less).

    We have a good solid 5 players to build from, why jeopardize it by trading him and bringing in a unknown commodity.  If we trade Wes or JJ I really have to question what direction we are going.  These two guys are the heart and soul of the team.  Their passion and drive is infectious to the rest of the team.

    Why not trade some of our bench talent (if that is what you want to call it) to Phoenix and get Jermine O'Neal.  We could unload salary cap space as Jermine is only being paid $800K.  He has at least two years left in him.

    but DO NOT TRADE JJ OR WES! They shoudl be off the table!

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/31/2012 6:15 PM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/28/2012 11:28 PM
    Problem with keeping Hickson is doing so would likely mean a very similar roster next season, as his new contract would eat up alot of Portland's cap...something Blazer Fanatic has discussed in other threads.

    A girl can only try so hard before she gives up.  Reminds me of Jack Nicholas in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth."  ; )
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/01/2013 12:36 AM

    I love how all of my previous posts within a thread outlining my specific thoughts and feeling on the given subject are often ignored, while my most recent response to another fan's post where I've attempted to play devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion...is dwelled upon and critiqued into the ground.  Lol.  It's all good.  I consider the source(s) ;-)

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 01/01/2013 7:57 AM

    yea I don't think we can bring him back unless we want to have another year with a real thin bench 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/01/2013 8:32 AM

    I f I were to exercise the foresight necessary for the success of a rebuild in progress, it would not be I having difficulty with the handling of the truth.  In three years, when a certain all-star point guard's contract is up for renewal, would having Aldridge still in a Blazer uniform and under contract not hamstring the front office?  The answer, as painful as it may be for some of you, is yes.  Hickson gives you a younger and more productive PF, and for far less.  Note that I did NOT say Hickson was a "better player".  Important to make that distinction.  What Hicky provides that LA doesn't is far more difficult to replace in todays NBA than is what LA, a stretch 4 provides, that Hicky does not.  Then you have the budget and age to consider.  There are only a handful of what I would call dominant banging paint players that simply outwork their opponent nightly.  Conversely, finding a player that can score, even on a regular basis and from the perimeter for the most part, is not as difficult.  In an ongoing rebuilding effort, factoring in all of the variables in play here and again, exercising foresight...JJ is a Blazer, period.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/01/2013 9:35 AM

    Keep in mind also, that Leonard's agent will be wanting for HIS client fair market value at that same time.  With guys like Pekovic commanding what they are, as the position slips further into extinction, what will Leonard be owed provided he stays healthy and continues to develop?  The kid has touch, is a healthy and athletic 7'er already...and not too many of those around.  Should he learn to keep his base, his hips square, hands high?  Add 10-15 lbs in the upper body while strengthening his trunk?   Money doesn't grow on trees.  In less than 3 years, owner Paul Allen may wish he owned a nursery.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 01/01/2013 10:32 AM

    yea I've contemplated letting aldridge go to and moving forward with hickson 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 01/02/2013 7:37 AM

    Posted By BDawg on 01/01/2013 8:32 AM

    I f I were to exercise the foresight necessary for the success of a rebuild in progress, it would not be I having difficulty with the handling of the truth.  In three years, when a certain all-star point guard's contract is up for renewal, would having Aldridge still in a Blazer uniform and under contract not hamstring the front office?  The answer, as painful as it may be for some of you, is yes.  Hickson gives you a younger and more productive PF, and for far less.  Note that I did NOT say Hickson was a "better player".  Important to make that distinction.  What Hicky provides that LA doesn't is far more difficult to replace in todays NBA than is what LA, a stretch 4 provides, that Hicky does not.  Then you have the budget and age to consider.  There are only a handful of what I would call dominant banging paint players that simply outwork their opponent nightly.  Conversely, finding a player that can score, even on a regular basis and from the perimeter for the most part, is not as difficult.  In an ongoing rebuilding effort, factoring in all of the variables in play here and again, exercising foresight...JJ is a Blazer, period.

     

    I have to agree with BDAWG.

     

    As much sentimental value that LA has, this year he is averaging 38 minutes a game to JJ’s 28 minutes a game.  How much more can his body take.  He is 27 now and has great value for trade in him now.  When his contract expires going into the 2015-2016 season he will be 30.  Quite honestly if LA wants to win a championship while in his prime, I do not see it in Portland.

     

    Every player who comes into the league wants to win a championship as well as every team.  If Portland is really going thru a two to three year re-building process, LA has to be on the table.  If at the trade deadline, Portland had an offer for LA from a team that was truly contending for a NBA Championship, don’t you think LA would jump at the chance?

     

    We have a good solid young team, but BDAWG is right, finding true interior players like JJ are harder to find then PF’s who can shoot from the perimeter who really are not comfortable playing the Low Post Game.

     

    Just think about this, if JJ was playing the minutes that LA was playing, think of what his stats would be.

     

    I love LA, but I think if we really think about it, for us to be a contender in two to three years, LA has to be at the top of the list on who we trade.  He will bring us more in value now, than he will in the next year or two.

     

     

    Remember, this is a business, in the NBA the ROI is winning a Championship.  I do not see LA doing it with Portland.  I know Olshey will get crucified he trades LA, but if it puts Portland in a position to be a true contender in two to three years, I am all for it.

     

    In Business hard decisions have to be made, but in the long term, I believe this is a not brainer.  But that is just me.


    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/02/2013 10:15 AM

    I thought about if LA played 28 or few minutes, and JJ played 38+.  And then I thought, I'd really hate losing all the time and never seeing a play-off series win for years to come.

     

    Definitely a "no brainer."

     

    LA isn't on the table.  Acceptance is an importand step on the road to recovery.

     

     

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 01/02/2013 11:06 AM

    As I've mentioned in other posts today, last night LA outplayed Chandler at the 5 and JJ slid to the 4 making the double teams pay by being the trailer. It worked. Same thing Stotts did when we came back from 18 down and 5 minutes to play. Unlike teams that have been together for many seasons, they are still learning to play together and develop a 1-2 punch in the paint. I think our starting 5 can beat any team in the NBA. Not only that, they're young and can run! If this growth continues we may be seeing the playoff calliber Blazers develop game by game and it's going to be a very, very good team. Stotts really impressed me with his rotations and game plan against the Knicks.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 01/02/2013 11:16 AM

    I'm sorry, but the JJ is better than LaMarcus argument can never hold water.  There is not a single GM, coach or analyst in the NBA that would take Hickson over Aldridge.


    Don't get me wrong, I love JJ.  But, when opposing teams look at us, they see LA as priority #1.  In order to beat us they have to get him out of the post, stop him from getting rebounds, contest his mid-range jumpers.  Stop him from doing those things and that is their first step to beating us.  After that, they have Batum, Lillard and Wes to worry about next, before they even turn their attention to JJ.  So under those conditions, Hickson is thriving,  he is 5th on the list of things the other teams think about when playing us.  


    Would JJ be putting up numbers like LaMarcus if he was then one the opposing team was trying hardest to disrupt?


  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/02/2013 11:26 AM

    It's pretty sad that any Blazer fan would honestly believe LA's value to this team is mearly sentimental. 
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 01/02/2013 11:56 AM

    If we keep hickson,yeah its the exact same team we have no,but how much worse would we be without hickson?
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 01/02/2013 12:27 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 01/02/2013 7:37 AM

    I love LA, but I think if we really think about it, for us to be a contender in two to three years, LA has to be at the top of the list on who we trade.  He will bring us more in value now, than he will in the next year or two.

     

     

    Remember, this is a business, in the NBA the ROI is winning a Championship.  I do not see LA doing it with Portland.  I know Olshey will get crucified he trades LA, but if it puts Portland in a position to be a true contender in two to three years, I am all for it.

     

    In Business hard decisions have to be made, but in the long term, I believe this is a not brainer.  But that is just me.



    Let's entertain this line of thought, from a business like approach 


    In business, every transaction that is made has a cost and a gain.  If the value of the gain is greater than the costs for each party involved, than the transaction can happen.


    Aldridge is currently providing 38 mins/gm with an average of 21+ points and 8+ rebounds per night, he is also our #1 option as seen by us and all around the league.  Thus he commands most of the attention of the opposing defense = less attention to go around to other players = other players have statistically better performances. 


    What he provides for us = The cost of trading him.  What would we need to gain to make that cost worthwhile?

    The Blazers - LA + ??? = Championship contender


    You could say "we have JJ to play LA's position, and Lillard is developing into a #1 option, let LA go for expiring contracts/supporting staff and draft picks to be able to bring in key players in the future".  But, will JJ and the rest of team play as well without LA to take the defensive pressure off of them?  That clearly makes us immediately a worse team

    worse team = longer rebuild, probably more along the lines of 4-5 years 


    A "championship contender" worthy #1 option? but who would we get? 

    Also, to get a player that is better than Aldridge, would cost more than Aldridge alone, how much further cost (not in terms of money, but in terms of what we have right now, i. e. current players, future draft picks, and salary cap space)  is a "superstar" worth?




     



  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/02/2013 12:55 PM

    ubahn,

    Breaking it down in a manner that is easily understood, unfortunately is not going to help people arguing to trade LA who don't see the light, because they don't want to understand it. 

  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 01/02/2013 1:08 PM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 01/02/2013 11:56 AM
    If we keep hickson,yeah its the exact same team we have no,but how much worse would we be without hickson?

    Excellent question, let look at this similarly to my post above


    JJ is currently providing 28+ mins/gm with an average of 12+ point and 11 rebounds per night, also he provides hustle and energy to charge up other players to play harder.


    What would we need to gain to make the cost of losing JJ worthwhile?


    The obvious answer is a defensive minded center, one who can grab rebounds (something like avg 6 points, 10 rebounds per night), but also get blocks and more importantly decreases the amount of points in the paint we give up more often than not.  If we get better defense, then we don't need quite as much offense from our 5th option, so losing an average of a few points a night, is not too big a cost.  Another big bonus here would be someone that could mentor Meyers.  This immediately makes us a better team and closer to championship contention.

    The big IF here again is total cost (again in terms of what we have now, i.e. current players, future draft picks, and salary cap space). How much is a defensive minded center worth? However, I think this is much more doable than what it would take to make losing Aldridge worth it.


    I love JJ, but I think if we really think about it, for us to be a contender in two to three years, JJ has to be at the top of the list on who we trade.  He will bring us more in value now, than he will in the next year or two.

    Remember, this is a business, in the NBA the ROI is winning a Championship.  I do not see JJ doing it as Portland's starting center.  I know Olshey will get crucified if he trades JJ, but if it puts Portland in a position to be a true contender in two to three years, I am all for it.

     

    In Business hard decisions have to be made, but in the long term, I believe this is a no brainer.  But that is just me.


  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 01/02/2013 1:09 PM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 01/02/2013 12:55 PM

    ubahn,

    Breaking it down in a manner that is easily understood, unfortunately is not going to help people arguing to trade LA who don't see the light, because they don't want to understand it. 


    That just makes me sad

  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/02/2013 4:31 PM

    "He is currently boasting career highs in shooting percentage (55.7%), rebounding rate (22.2) and Player Efficiency Rating (21.18), which is 24th in the NBA.  And because he's logging nearly 30 minutes a game, he's averaging a double-double (12.5 ppg, 11.0 rpg)"...courtesy of Alex Raskin, Senior NBA Writer.

     

    Read more here.

     

    Nothing ground breaking for the more astute Blazer fans on these boards, however always nice to see a Blazer getting some national ink.  One thing I found to be of interest, was the stat Raskin gave illustrating how many shots at the rim JJ averages per game, and the percentage he's shooting them.  I would like to know how Hickson compares to other starting PFs and Cs in that category.  I'm sure his agent knows, as that will be something that undoubtedly will be used to determine market value.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 01/02/2013 8:33 PM

    Really nice to see JJ finally get some National Press.  You are right BDAWG, I am sure his agent is taking every stat he can to formulate a plan to get him a good contract during Free Agency.

     

    Talent like JJ does not come along that often and I will be on a campaign for Paul Allen and Neil Olshey to sign him before to the end of the season and say the hell with the CAP to sign him.  Give him a Wesley size or better contract to back up LA at the PF position.  We could still use him next season at Center if we do not sign a big man during the off season while Meyers supposedly continues to develop.  JJ is OK with playing off the bench as he has said in interviews.  He loves the game and wants to help the team in anyway he can.

     

    Let’s look at where JJ ranks amongst the all-time best Power Forwards in Blazer History and yes I would say JJ is up there on the list: (I may have missed one or two, but I think these 9 are the best of the best.

     

    Buck Williams
    Rasheed Wallace
    Maurice Lucas
    Sidney Wicks
    Cliff Robinson
    Jermaine O'Neal

    Lamarcus Aldridge

    JJ Hckson

     Scottie Pippen

     

    JJ is the best rebounding PF that the Blazers have ever had. Out of the list above, I would say he is in the Top 5 in Defense even before LA.  Yes his offense is probably puts him at number 9 on this list.

     

    Does he deserve a strong contract from Paul Allen?  ABSOLUTELY!  Will he get it?  According to some on this board who are so concerned about managing salary cap, probably not and they would be willing to let him go to stay under the CAP.

     

    By the way when Brandon Roy was amnestied 85% of his salary was covered by insurance so Paul Allen really has not exceeded the Cap in the last few years since the Jail Blazers. So for those people that say Paul Allen is a great owner and willing to spend money, yes he has up until the end of the Jail Blazer saga.  In the last seven to 10 years if he has exceeded it has been minimal at best.

     

    So if Mr. Allen wants to put a Championship Team on the floor, it is time to spend the money and start with signing JJ to what the deserves.

     

    OK Blazer Fanatic, I am waiting for you to say by argument about Paul Allen is not credible.

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/02/2013 8:48 PM

    The Blazers have lost $245 mil over the last 10 years.  Surprised you didn't know that.

     

    JJ is not a great defender, nor is his defense better than LA.  Rebounds come after the shot, defense comes before the shot.  Your argument is not credible.

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 01/02/2013 10:58 PM

    JJ disappeared in Toronto tonight. He's not a great defender by any stretch but he's much improved since he's gotten here.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/03/2013 5:31 AM

    The more I watch Hickson play, the more his weaknesses become apparent.  As both Fanatic and river have mentioned, his defense is suspect to put things mildly.  I have noticed that once late rotations have regressed to not rotating at all.  These aren't things that cannot be corrected with time and attention, provided Hicky is not making the KLove decision to forsake defense in order to secure position for rebounds and become a stat machine.  The tools are there, so should then be the defense.  

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 01/03/2013 6:37 AM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 01/02/2013 8:48 PM

    The Blazers have lost $245 mil over the last 10 years.  Surprised you didn't know that.

     

    JJ is not a great defender, nor is his defense better than LA.  Rebounds come after the shot, defense comes before the shot.  Your argument is not credible.

    I knew you were going to say my argument was not credible.  Yes they lost $245M but a substantial portion of that was recovered thru Insurance.  Surprised you did not know that.

    As I have said I ranked him in the middle of the pack on defense, however in my "OPINION" I believe he is a better defender and paint player than LA.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 01/03/2013 6:43 AM

     

    You are right on one thing, Defense comes after the shot (a missed shot which comes from good defense).  As I have said I know JJ has mediocre defensive skills, but again in my "Opinion:" his defense is better than LA.

     

    Lets face it last night no one played defense.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 01/03/2013 7:57 AM

    Well Maniac, you and I will have to agree to disagree, respectfully ofcourse...with regard to the defensive abilities of JJ and LA and how they compare.  While neither is where I would prefer them to be, Aldridge, imo, is light years ahead of Hickson.  At one point in last nights horror v the Raptors, LA was shown running up behind JJ to inform him before the inbounds that he was on the wrong side of the floor (defensively).  For all the fans watching locally on CSN, it was rather embarrassing.  I will agree however, that noone seemed to be interested in playing defense last night.  Portland mailed this one in imo.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/03/2013 9:41 AM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 01/03/2013 6:37 AM
    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 01/02/2013 8:48 PM

    The Blazers have lost $245 mil over the last 10 years.  Surprised you didn't know that.

     

    JJ is not a great defender, nor is his defense better than LA.  Rebounds come after the shot, defense comes before the shot.  Your argument is not credible.

    I knew you were going to say my argument was not credible.  Yes they lost $245M but a substantial portion of that was recovered thru Insurance.  Surprised you did not know that.

    As I have said I ranked him in the middle of the pack on defense, however in my "OPINION" I believe he is a better defender and paint player than LA.

    You said you were waiting for me to say it wasn't credible.  I was just being polite. ; )

     

    NBA owners are in business.  It's not an exercise in amassing year, after year, after year... debt.  You would ask something of Paul Allen you would not do for your own business, and then complain about it.  That's not very reasonable.  But money is not the issue with what the Blazers choose to do with JJ, the CBA and salary cap is.

     

    I don't really understand the argument you're making in compairing JJ to better players that played for Portland.  According to JJ, he's a PF.  According to you, JJ is, at best, an average defender (which is admittedly bias given your avatar).  With that said, you compared Hickson to the following PFs:

    Buck Williams, Rasheed Wallace, Maurice Lucas
    Sidney Wick, Cliff Robinson, Jermaine O'Neal

    Lamarcus Aldridge, Scottie Pippen

    (No Zach Randolph I guess.)

     

    The only stat you mentioned was rebounding.  I would argue every single one of those players were better than JJ is now.  And of the PF you listed, it may suprise you that each time the made any noise in the playoffs as Blazers, they played with a real center... WALTON, DUCKWORTH, SABONIS.  Do we have one of those Centers on our team?  No.

  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 01/04/2013 8:19 AM

    jj has a great work ethic but he is a below average defender he's almost looking like our version of k love 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
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