Batum I hope you paid attention
You are not authorized to post a reply.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/14/2012 4:30 PM

    Could not have said it better.  I am tired of potential and tired of excuses.  STEP UP!

    I am glad cmeese47 you and I agree on something!

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/14/2012 4:46 PM

    While I want more out of Batum, one thing I will say is he has improved a lot this year. Look at last nights game for example he shot the ball poorly but he never quit on the game. That is something we probably would have seen from him last year. Additionally, he found ways to contribute without scoring tonight posting 8 assists. He also had some clutch moments in a close game that helped us win. 

    If he keeps improving then I am happy if not then we can talk about what to do with him.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/14/2012 5:03 PM

    I guess you see more improvement than I do.  Yes last night he stepped up, but in my eyes he still lacks the consistency.  His point pruduction is basically the same.  Yes his PPG is higher, but he is playing more minutes this year then he did last and he also has an offensive minded coach verus Nate.  With all that going for him I was expecting PPG in the 19 range and his rebounds to be in the 8 to 9 average.

    Was I asking too much, I did not think I was but apparaently the fans of Batum;s were OK with status quo.

    Lets hope his intangible play like last night continues and his PPG matches his increased in minutes aand the offensive minded Stotts and not Nate.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/14/2012 5:42 PM

    Posted By cmeese47 on 12/14/2012 4:46 PM

    While I want more out of Batum, one thing I will say is he has improved a lot this year. Look at last nights game for example he shot the ball poorly but he never quit on the game. That is something we probably would have seen from him last year. Additionally, he found ways to contribute without scoring tonight posting 8 assists. He also had some clutch moments in a close game that helped us win. 

    If he keeps improving then I am happy if not then we can talk about what to do with him.


    that clutch block was much needed 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/14/2012 5:52 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/14/2012 5:03 PM

    I guess you see more improvement than I do.  Yes last night he stepped up, but in my eyes he still lacks the consistency.  His point pruduction is basically the same.  Yes his PPG is higher, but he is playing more minutes this year then he did last and he also has an offensive minded coach verus Nate.  With all that going for him I was expecting PPG in the 19 range and his rebounds to be in the 8 to 9 average.

    Was I asking too much, I did not think I was but apparaently the fans of Batum;s were OK with status quo.

    Lets hope his intangible play like last night continues and his PPG matches his increased in minutes aand the offensive minded Stotts and not Nate.


    you also got to take into consideration that he wasn't fully healthy either but he did produce in other areas to make up for the lack of his shot falling 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/14/2012 6:49 PM

    Posted By BLASER on 12/14/2012 5:52 PM
    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/14/2012 5:03 PM

    I guess you see more improvement than I do.  Yes last night he stepped up, but in my eyes he still lacks the consistency.  His point pruduction is basically the same.  Yes his PPG is higher, but he is playing more minutes this year then he did last and he also has an offensive minded coach verus Nate.  With all that going for him I was expecting PPG in the 19 range and his rebounds to be in the 8 to 9 average.

    Was I asking too much, I did not think I was but apparaently the fans of Batum;s were OK with status quo.

    Lets hope his intangible play like last night continues and his PPG matches his increased in minutes aand the offensive minded Stotts and not Nate.


    you also got to take into consideration that he wasn't fully healthy either but he did produce in other areas to make up for the lack of his shot falling 


    Again, my issue with Batum he is consistent at being inconsistent.  Yes there are games he gives in other area's but that is less of the issue, and that does not make up for his overall inconsistent game.  He is supposoe to be our second leading scorer and leader on the team, instead he is our fourth with the same overall game as last year.  He is under the microscope this season and it is not looking good.
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/14/2012 6:59 PM

    I dont know I tend to agree alittle with everyone on this posts,Die hard fans like Blazer maniac,Cmeese,and myself should be able to expect more,but Blazer Fanatic has great points as well.Simply put,we just gotta wait and hope that Batum will maximize his potential and try to develop his offensive game more.I mean he had 8 assists last nite,so we know he can do it all,he's just gotta put in the time off the court watching videos,learning becoming a student of the game,and he can be a future baller
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/14/2012 8:21 PM

    I want two things from Batum he needs to improve his rebounding which has been better this season but very inconsistent and he needs to show the ability to penetrate and get to the foul line. 

    If he can get to the line the 5 times a game I am asking he certainly will get closer to 19 points a night that blazermaniac wants. However, I am not sure he will ever reach the 8 boards per night. I want to see 6.5 a game that would help him win his match-up most nights. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 12/14/2012 11:17 PM

    Call me the border pa-troller !!! Sorry, just thought that was funny. Continue griping
    I am a fan of
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/15/2012 8:30 AM

    @Maniac...Nic has a no-trade clause built into his new contract that I believe runs thru June of next year.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/15/2012 9:01 AM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 12/14/2012 6:59 PM
    I dont know I tend to agree alittle with everyone on this posts,Die hard fans like Blazer maniac,Cmeese,and myself should be able to expect more,but Blazer Fanatic has great points as well.Simply put,we just gotta wait and hope that Batum will maximize his potential and try to develop his offensive game more.I mean he had 8 assists last nite,so we know he can do it all,he's just gotta put in the time off the court watching videos,learning becoming a student of the game,and he can be a future baller

    As I said, in the past, the biggest thing with Batum in previous season's as Batum Fans have pointed out was playing in Nate's restrictive offensive system and when we signed Stotts everyone was of the belief (including me), that Batum with Stotts as as coach who has one of the best offensive minds in the game would ubnleash his Talent.  Obviously it has not happened as we are having the same dicsussion this year as we did last year.

    You have made a great point about committment level off the court.  Compare him to Wes who is a obsessive student of the game. Who is the first one to volunteer for Summer League, who is the first one at practice as well as the last one.  He does not have the natural talent that Batum does, however he makes up for it by committment to his profession and doing anything he can to get better.

    Just imagine if Batum did the same thing and also started drving the lane and getting to the line.  He has had 70 Free Throw attempts for the seaosn.  If you compare him to league leaders in the NBA as far as Free Throw Attempts he ranks 67th year to date.  Look at the list below of the top 40 in FTA and you will notice all of the SF, SG, and even PG's who are willing to drive the lane and get to the line.  SO WY WON'T Batum who has all of the natural Talent.

    My hope that Batum plays up to his potential that has been all over this baord for so long.  I do not know why we won't.  Imagine how good we would be if Batum was playing to his Potenital consistently 80% of the time.  the team's w-l would be a lot better,  He has to find it in himself to do it.  No matter how much Blazer Fans talk about his potenital  and how great he is, his Stats do not back it up compared to last year.

    Last question to prove my point about diving the paint.  Why is he only averaging 3.5 Attempts per game.  Look at Paul Pierce who is 35 and he is averaging double the attempts per game.  I believe that Batum has more pure natural talent than Pierce and he is 10 years younger. Just imagine if teams had to focus on three player of the Blazers who are hammering the baords, drving the paint and if that happens the defense collapses and they can kick out to Wes or Damian for the uncontested three or at least if our front line is playing in the paint they all get to the line and get points.

    Please Nicolas, find it in yourself to live up to your potential and Talent that everyone talks about!

    Total Free Throws Attempted Leaders - All Players

     

     

    PER GAME

    TOTAL

     

    RK

    PLAYER

    TEAM

    GP

    PPG

    FTM

    FTA

    FTM

    FTA

    FT%

    1

    Dwight Howard, C

    LAL

    24

    18.2

    5.3

    10.7

    126

    256

    .492

    2

    Kevin Durant, SF

    OKC

    23

    27.5

    8.3

    9.3

    192

    214

    .897

    3

    Kobe Bryant, SG

    LAL

    24

    29.3

    7.7

    8.9

    184

    213

    .864

    4

    James Harden, SG

    HOU

    21

    24.8

    8.0

    9.3

    167

    196

    .852

    5

    Carmelo Anthony, SF

    NY

    20

    27.9

    6.3

    7.8

    126

    156

    .808

    6

    Paul Pierce, SF

    BOS

    22

    19.8

    5.6

    6.9

    123

    151

    .815

    7

    Russell Westbrook, PG

    OKC

    23

    20.8

    4.5

    5.8

    103

    134

    .769

    8

    Ramon Sessions, PG

    CHA

    22

    14.4

    4.9

    5.8

    107

    127

    .843

    9

    Paul Millsap, PF

    UTAH

    24

    15.3

    3.7

    5.2

    88

    125

    .704

    10

    Greg Monroe, C

    DET

    25

    15.0

    3.4

    4.9

    86

    123

    .699

     

    PER GAME

    TOTAL

     

    RK

    PLAYER

    TEAM

    GP

    PPG

    FTM

    FTA

    FTM

    FTA

    FT%

    11

    Chris Bosh, C

    MIA

    20

    18.5

    4.9

    5.9

    97

    118

    .822

    12

    DeMar DeRozan, SG

    TOR

    24

    18.0

    3.8

    4.8

    91

    115

    .791

     

    LeBron James, SF

    MIA

    20

    25.5

    3.9

    5.8

    78

    115

    .678

    14

    Monta Ellis, PG

    MIL

    21

    19.3

    4.4

    5.3

    92

    112

    .821

     

    Blake Griffin, PF

    LAC

    22

    18.2

    3.0

    5.1

    67

    112

    .598

    16

    LaMarcus Aldridge, PF

    POR

    21

    21.0

    4.2

    5.3

    89

    111

    .802

    17

    Carl Landry, PF

    GS

    23

    12.6

    3.7

    4.7

    86

    108

    .796

    18

    Tim Duncan, PF

    SA

    23

    17.8

    3.7

    4.6

    84

    106

    .792

     

    Tyson Chandler, C

    NY

    22

    12.6

    3.4

    4.8

    74

    106

    .698

     

    Kevin Love, PF

    MIN

    11

    19.4

    6.5

    9.6

    71

    106

    .670

     

    PER GAME

    TOTAL

     

    RK

    PLAYER

    TEAM

    GP

    PPG

    FTM

    FTA

    FTM

    FTA

    FT%

    21

    Kevin Martin, SG

    OKC

    23

    16.0

    4.3

    4.6

    98

    105

    .933

     

    Danilo Gallinari, SF

    DEN

    23

    15.5

    3.7

    4.6

    85

    105

    .810

    23

    Chris Paul, PG

    LAC

    22

    16.3

    4.1

    4.7

    91

    103

    .884

     

    Kenneth Faried, SF

    DEN

    24

    12.3

    2.4

    4.3

    58

    103

    .563

    25

    Kemba Walker, PG

    CHA

    22

    17.5

    3.7

    4.6

    82

    102

    .804

    26

    Omer Asik, C

    HOU

    22

    10.5

    2.7

    4.6

    59

    101

    .584

    27

    Gordon Hayward, SG

    UTAH

    24

    13.4

    3.5

    4.1

    84

    99

    .848

    28

    Deron Williams, PG

    BKN

    22

    16.7

    3.7

    4.5

    81

    98

    .827

    29

    David West, PF

    IND

    23

    17.3

    3.1

    4.2

    71

    97

    .732

    30

    David Lee, PF

    GS

    23

    19.2

    3.3

    4.2

    77

    96

    .802

     

    PER GAME

    TOTAL

     

    RK

    PLAYER

    TEAM

    GP

    PPG

    FTM

    FTA

    FTM

    FTA

    FT%

    31

    Marc Gasol, C

    MEM

    20

    15.4

    4.3

    4.8

    86

    95

    .905

     

    Dwyane Wade, SG

    MIA

    17

    19.8

    4.4

    5.6

    75

    95

    .789

    33

    Jamal Crawford, SG

    LAC

    22

    17.1

    4.0

    4.3

    88

    94

    .936

     

    Rodney Stuckey, PG

    DET

    24

    11.6

    3.3

    3.9

    80

    94

    .851

     

    Damian Lillard, PG

    POR

    22

    18.9

    3.6

    4.3

    79

    94

    .840

     

    Goran Dragic, PG

    PHX

    23

    15.0

    3.0

    4.1

    70

    94

    .745

    37

    Tony Parker, PG

    SA

    22

    19.1

    3.5

    4.2

    76

    93

    .817

     

    Brandon Knight, PG

    DET

    25

    15.0

    2.9

    3.7

    72

    93

    .774

    39

    Stephen Curry, PG

    GS

    23

    19.8

    3.6

    4.0

    82

    92

    .891

    40

    DeMarcus Cousins, C

    SAC

    19

    16.8

    3.6

    4.8

    69

    91

    .758

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/15/2012 4:33 PM

    This unsubstantiated opinion about Batum's committment level is a belief akin to "end of the world" 2012 believers.  It's simply baseless, but people are certainly intitled to it.

    Holy free throw stat spam.  That is a LOT of numbers using 1 stat to attempt to prove a point.  Let's add some stat and see how the argument changes.

    Wes Matthews 3.9 FTA    2.8 FTM       2.2 3PM   6 3PA     258 FGA    12.9 FGAPG

    Nic Batum       3.4 FTA    2.9 FTM       2.4 3PM   7 3PA     270 FGA    12.9 FGAPG              10.5 mil/year

    Dame Lillard   4.3 FTA    3.5 FTM       2.2 3PM   6 3PA     338 FGA    15.4 FGAPG

    LA                  5.3 FTA  4.2 FTM                                     379 FGA     18 FGAPG   All-Star  13.5 mil/year

     

    Kevin Durrant  9.3 FTA  8.3 FTM       1.6 2PM    4 3PA      392 FGA   17 FGAPG      All-Star  17mil/year

    Paul Pierce     6.9 FTA  5.6 FTM        1.7  3PM   5 3PA      337 FGA   15.3 FGAPG   All-Star  17 mil/year

     

    Batum takes fewer shots than LA, Durrant, and Pierce, and shoots more from 3PT.  Batum isn't an All-Star that gets favorable calls either, and people can call that opinion subjective, but I still buy it.  If one wants to argue that Batum should drive to the baskets and draw more fouls rather than spread the floor with his 3pt shooting, it's an opinion that I disagree with.  We're talking about FTA, not trips to the line.  Look at Pierc: 2 more FGA, 2 fewer 3PA, and he's getting 2.4 more FTA... or what... just over 1 trip to the free throw line more per game.  Really strong argument right? 

     

    Let's look at Usage - the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes of play

    Kevin Durrant  26.3  (11th in the NBA)

    Paul Pierce 25.5

    LA              24.6

    Lillard         23.8

    Batum         19.2

    Will Barton  18.7

    Matthews     18.3

     

    If Batum was THE go to guy in Portland, he'd command double teams, and was chased of the 3pt line, he'd get fouled more often.  But he isn't.  Lillard is The guy Popovich game planed most for, then LA.  Batum gets his when he gets his, and it often comes from a solid perimeter 3.  I think a general lack of understanding for the role Batum plays on this team is cause for critisism, out side of what is generally agreed with regarding his shots missing.

     

    Last time Batum drove into traffic he ended up going out of the game, reaggrivating his back.  A lot of good that did from the team.  Batum is more productive spreading the floor, and taking his oppotunities to slash back door or off a pick-n-roll when they present themselves.  Advicating from arguably you best 3pt shooter to leave the perimeter doesn't make sense. LA needs space to opperate, and guys like Batum that can hurt teams who double him on the perimeter.  Show me evidence that Batum is better utilized driving to the basket, and collapsing the defense. 

     

    Batum is not Durrant, or Pierce, or Kobe, but he isn't any less clutch on offense or defense this year, nor is there any data to show he isn't committed or doesn't work hard.  He's playing with a jacked back.  Portland doesn't beat SA with out Batum.  According to Batum, "I have to play.  The team needs me."  Sounds like a guy who isn't committed right?

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/15/2012 5:27 PM

    Look at the difference free throws make though. Durant is taking only 17 shots per game and is scoring 27.5 a game, that is amazing efficiency.

    I like Batum but he is shooting an abysmal 41.9% from the field which while he is making several threes per game, which suggest he needs to find some higher percentage shots and driving to the hoop can help improve those numbers. 

    If he can get those numbers up to at least 45% then we can talk but right now he needs some easier buckets.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/15/2012 5:50 PM

    This is all interesting but my value system is team based. Individual stats only show portions of a players value...altered shots are not a stat, screens set are not a stat. I love to see a team unselfishly knock out wins with a different high scorer, assist, rebound leader night in and night out. Against the Spurs for example, Nic was huge on defense and made good passes whether he lit up the scoreboard or not. Sasha is another example of a guy who contributes without huge scoring stats. 

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/15/2012 10:06 PM

    Posted By riverman on 12/15/2012 5:50 PM

    This is all interesting but my value system is team based. Individual stats only show portions of a players value...altered shots are not a stat, screens set are not a stat. I love to see a team unselfishly knock out wins with a different high scorer, assist, rebound leader night in and night out. Against the Spurs for example, Nic was huge on defense and made good passes whether he lit up the scoreboard or not. Sasha is another example of a guy who contributes without huge scoring stats. 



    I agree.  There really isn't a solid argument to be made for singling out Batum to the extreme degree at which some have.  My point all along has been, if fans have issues with the Blazers, look at the bench before singling out and nit picking Batum or LA as not being worth their contract, or needing to be traded.  I haven't enjoyed watching basketball this much in years as I have watching this team.  What they lack in tallent from 1 to 13th man, they make up for with effort and heart.  It really is exciting basketball when they are able to execute the game plan and avoid silly mistakes.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/15/2012 10:16 PM

    Posted By cmeese47 on 12/15/2012 5:27 PM

    Look at the difference free throws make though. Durant is taking only 17 shots per game and is scoring 27.5 a game, that is amazing efficiency.

    I like Batum but he is shooting an abysmal 41.9% from the field which while he is making several threes per game, which suggest he needs to find some higher percentage shots and driving to the hoop can help improve those numbers. 

    If he can get those numbers up to at least 45% then we can talk but right now he needs some easier buckets.


    I am confussed why making Kobe comparisons this year is dumb, but making Durrant comparisons would be spot on.  Durrant and Lebron are MVP candidates.  By comparing them the way you are cmeese47, it would lead one to think you think Batum should be playing like an MVP... mind you, he's not even the highest paid on the Blazers, and 7 mil short of Durrant.

     

    Batum could be hitting his shots more.  He missed 2 dunks a week or two ago in the same game (cleveland I think).  I just don't buy the slippery slope argument that he's weak minded, lacks committment, or any of the other non-scense arguments that he isn't worth his contract.  When you look at his usage, and compair it to Lillard and LA and even Wes, it's a team game.  He isn't THE man on the Blazers, he's just a vital part of the highest scoring starting 5 in the league, and a guy we have relied on to hit big shots in crunch time, and come up with huge defensive stops.  I don't agree that Batum shooting an open 3 is less efficient that him driving into traffic.  He's not going to get the calls Durrant does, and his role is to keep the floor spread, only taking it to the rim when opportunity presents itself.

     

    Your take is less critical than some, so I'll at least commend you for that, but I don't believe it's really as easy as saying... if only he'd drive to the basket more.  Team game.

  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/16/2012 8:03 AM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 12/15/2012 10:06 PM
    Posted By riverman on 12/15/2012 5:50 PM

    This is all interesting but my value system is team based. Individual stats only show portions of a players value...altered shots are not a stat, screens set are not a stat. I love to see a team unselfishly knock out wins with a different high scorer, assist, rebound leader night in and night out. Against the Spurs for example, Nic was huge on defense and made good passes whether he lit up the scoreboard or not. Sasha is another example of a guy who contributes without huge scoring stats. 



    I agree.  There really isn't a solid argument to be made for singling out Batum to the extreme degree at which some have.  My point all along has been, if fans have issues with the Blazers, look at the bench before singling out and nit picking Batum or LA as not being worth their contract, or needing to be traded.  I haven't enjoyed watching basketball this much in years as I have watching this team.  What they lack in tallent from 1 to 13th man, they make up for with effort and heart.  It really is exciting basketball when they are able to execute the game plan and avoid silly mistakes.

    Your kidding right?  I know we have issues with the Bench that is a given but they are not making the money that Batum is.  I do not have a problem with LA's contract he earns every penny of it since it looks like he is really stepping up his game contrary to Batum.  Again my issue with Batum is the fact that he is consitent at being inconsistent. 

    He is playing the same level of basketball as he did last year same PPG with more minutes and a offensive minded coach that gives him the freedom he wanted.  When we signed him all touted with LA & Batum as the cornertsone of the Franchise.  Question where is Batum? 

    My Point is that Batum needs to step up his game a lot or he will be Trade Bait at the trading deadline. 

    So if I am understanding you correctly, you are ok with his current level of play becuase it is a team game.  Does a team game give him an excuse for being inconsistemt?  Does a team game give him an excuse by his own admissions "to shut down offensively if he misses his first few shots of a fgame"?

    Unfortuneately myslef as well as other folks on this board do not want to settle for his mediocre play, we are tired of the excuses for him, we are tired for waiting for his potential.  It is time for him to execute.

    Well the equestion is execute or status quo?  I think most Blazer fans would want him to step up and execute versus accpeting the same Batum from last year who last year was making approximately $2m a year and this year he is at $11m approximately.

    Does he have the Mental Toughness to do this, who knows but he is on the clock, that is the "Trade Deadline".  It is his choice.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/16/2012 9:06 AM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 12/15/2012 10:16 PM
    I am confussed why making Kobe comparisons this year is dumb, but making Durrant comparisons would be spot on.  Durrant and Lebron are MVP candidates.  By comparing them the way you are cmeese47, it would lead one to think you think Batum should be playing like an MVP... mind you, he's not even the highest paid on the Blazers, and 7 mil short of Durrant.

    Batum could be hitting his shots more.  He missed 2 dunks a week or two ago in the same game (cleveland I think).  I just don't buy the slippery slope argument that he's weak minded, lacks committment, or any of the other non-scense arguments that he isn't worth his contract.  When you look at his usage, and compair it to Lillard and LA and even Wes, it's a team game.  He isn't THE man on the Blazers, he's just a vital part of the highest scoring starting 5 in the league, and a guy we have relied on to hit big shots in crunch time, and come up with huge defensive stops.  I don't agree that Batum shooting an open 3 is less efficient that him driving into traffic.  He's not going to get the calls Durrant does, and his role is to keep the floor spread, only taking it to the rim when opportunity presents itself. 

    Your take is less critical than some, so I'll at least commend you for that, but I don't believe it's really as easy as saying... if only he'd drive to the basket more.  Team game.


    I was not attempting to make Batum vs. Durant comparisons because as much as I think Kobe vs Batum is a bad comparison, Durant is even worse. What I was trying to suggest is that Durant is making the most of his shot attempts because he is getting to the line a lot. Taking over 9 free throws a game when your an 90% shooter adds 8 points per game to his average. Batum is struggling from the field right now shooting only 42% overall and a respectable 35% from three point range. I believe that if he drove to the hoop more his scoring would increase, his fg% would increase and his assist numbers would increase. 

    Also you will never see me blame Batum or any other starter for the teams overall record because as you have mentioned and anyone who has watched one of the teams games knows this bench is a problem.  However,  knowing how bad the bench is the starters on this team need to produce every night for us to have a chance.  If Batum has an off night he needs to make up for it like he did against the Spurs, otherwise this team has little hope of winning.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/16/2012 10:02 AM


    Posted By BDawg on 12/15/2012 8:30 AM
    @Maniac...Nic has a no-trade clause built into his new contract that I believe runs thru June of next year.


    Batum cannot be dealt this year
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/16/2012 12:09 PM

    The Thing is Batum needs to work on his offensive game,just learn how to draw fouls,it ain't hard, lean in, give fakes,stuff like that,maybe develop a mid range jumper,or even play alot of one on one in practice,learn how to take his opponent of the dribble,dribble drive,stutterstep,hey maybe learn a post up game,he's a 3 for christ sakes, 3's can post up,fake,fake,learn back,draw a foul,Only thing he needs is just to improve his offensive game,cause as it stands right now,he simply scores in transistion,or hits 3's. He needs to give us more,and I believe he can
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/16/2012 4:46 PM

    Nice so we have to wiat until 2014 for him to play to his potential.

    What brain child gave him this?  I suppose we have Minnesota to thank for this one!

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/16/2012 5:04 PM

    Manic:

    No, I’m not kidding. 

    No, Batum is not playing the same as he was last year.  His numbers have improved in several areas, and ignoring where he stands statistically this year versus last year to make an argument that he isn’t worth his contract is disingenuous.  He wasn’t even starting when Wallace was on the team.  So what are you even talking about?

     

    You begrudge anyone comparing any of Kobe’s stats to Batum’s stats, and yet you compared Batum to Pierce and Durrant.  You can’t have it both ways without losing credibility.  The conclusions you draw about what should be expected of Batum, is that he should be like the MVP of the league for $10.5 mil a year.  Your standard is unrealistic, and that is my entire point as you and others slid further down the slippery slope of bagging on Batum with exaggerated, sky is falling, trade Batum, he’s weak minded hater-aid.  You did not simply say, Batum has had some bad games offensively and I wish he’d shoot at least 45% every game. If he has a bad back, or is sick, it is a fact.  It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation.  You can call it an excuse, but I never implied that he has not had some bad games shooting the ball.  The fact is, he has, and it is because he hasn’t shot the ball well… period.  In fact, I said that he has been inconsistent shooting the ball at times. 

    I’m not telling you not to have an opinion, or what to think, or what to say.  I am merely pointing out that the argument, or opinion, to trade him and that he isn’t worth his contract, is full of hyperbole and baseless over-reaction.  I can understand your frustration, but you don't offer real solutions, and continue to complain and slight Batum.   Maybe you just need someone to point the finger at.  Who knows? 

    “My Point is that Batum needs to step up his game a lot or he will be Trade Bait at the trading deadline. “

     As BDawg stated already, no, he won’t.  So if that’s your point, then it's not valid.

    The more you dwell on the value of contracts, ignoring the market value and when contracts were signed, the less credible your argument becomes… which wasn’t credible to begin with.  Again, if you’d just said something like, “Batum has had some poor shooting nights I expect him to not have poor shooting nights,” I would have never responded.

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/16/2012 6:48 PM

    Cmeese47:

    You used Durrant as a comparison, then replied saying that you aren’t comparing them, then continued to make the comparison (that driving to the lane would increase Batum’s scoring as it would seem or Durrant).  I disagree that if Batum drove to the hoop, he’d score more.  There’s simply don’t have any statistical proof that driving into traffic in hopes of drawing contact, would increase Batum’s FG%, or that his assist numbers would increase.  You could say the exact opposite as well, and still not have much proof to show for it. (As I typed this, Batum hit Barton for a dunk while he was on the wing… looked like an assist to me.)  Durrant and Batum are on completely different levels, have completely different roles on their team.  But if that’s your opinion, so be it.  Where I take issue is making an entire thread demanding that Batum give 20% of his contract to charity, and soliciting bandwagon complaining.  In other words, you didn’t post a thread about Batum’s clutch play versus the Spurs, and his 8 assists. 

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/16/2012 9:28 PM

    Batum 8 assists vs SA, 10 ast vs NO

    First player in the NBA since 2001 to post 10 ast 5 stl 5 blks.  Should he give back 20% now?  I suspect he is expeting a raise.

    Batum read this thread and was out to disprove your theory cmeese47 that driving to the basket creates more assists.  What's the next reason Batum isn't worth his contract?

  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/16/2012 10:44 PM

    Batum had 11 points 10 assists 5 rbs 5 blks 5 stls,so that shows you how good he is now,and yeah he's only gonna get better,is batum worth his contract 100% yes, there's no debate about it
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 12/16/2012 11:46 PM

    That's a dang good stat line if you ask me Curvychloe, I fully agree. We need to open our eyes and realize that contracts are inflated. Batum getting $12 million a year really isn't that bad of a contract as long as he continues to contribute in a variety of ways. We all just need to take a step back and realize that scoring isn't the end all, be all of a player. LA had three total rebounds against the Hornets. THREE! I feel like this happens quite often. How much does LA make again? This whole team needs to step it up for the most part and play their roles assigned to them.  

    I am a fan of
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/17/2012 12:16 AM

    trade batum he played defense and we hate defense here in portland 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/17/2012 5:49 AM

    The frustrations with Batum come when looking at what he COULD be, and isn't...NOT what he is. He is a Lamborghini with a Prius motor...it really is that simple. For all of his incredibly rare and unique physical abilities, if his motor was stronger and could push those physical gifts to their max potential? We'd be looking at a top 50 player all time. For myself, I see this and this is where my frustrations with Nic lie. He is who he is and nothing will change that. A great person and talented Blazer. Imagine the kid with a Faried or Wesley motor and those Durant-like measurements and physical ability. Scary, just scary. Santa...are you listening?

    Keep filling up the stat sheet, contributing with an overall game and playing solid defense, and I'll be satisfied. I'm hoping though that Santa leaves you that triple threat ability in your stocking.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 6:48 AM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/17/2012 5:49 AM
    The frustrations with Batum come when looking at what he COULD be, and isn't...NOT what he is. He is a Lamborghini with a Prius motor...it really is that simple. For all of his incredibly rare and unique physical abilities, if his motor was stronger and could push those physical gifts to their max potential? We'd be looking at a top 50 player all time. For myself, I see this and this is where my frustrations with Nic lie. He is who he is and nothing will change that. A great person and talented Blazer. Imagine the kid with a Faried or Wesley motor and those Durant-like measurements and physical ability. Scary, just scary. Santa...are you listening?

    Keep filling up the stat sheet, contributing with an overall game and playing solid defense, and I'll be satisfied. I'm hoping though that Santa leaves you that triple threat ability in your stocking.


    Agreed,  Yes he had a solid game last night, but that is one game, lets back it up with another and another and another.  Yes Batum show glimpses of what he could be if he plays consistent.  As I have said before I would accept 80% of the time 4 out of 5 games he plays like he did last night and he would be a Durant type of player and as BDAWG said a top 50 player of all type which is what I hear everyone saying he has the potential to be.

     

    Just imagine what are record would be if Batum played 4 out of 5 games like he did last night.  My guess is we would be a few games above 500.

     

    HE HAD  A GREAT GAME LAST NIGHT- Yes I said he had a great game last night and I am giving him credit and not saying anything negative about his game last night.

     

    Compare him to JJ, you know what you are going to get out of him every night, a solid 10 point game and 10 rebounds a game consistently.  With Batum's natural Talent why can't he give efforts like he did last night at least 4 out of 5 games?

     

    Once he does that Batum skeptics will start giving him the credit and respect he deserves.

     

    I am tired of when he has one of those great games like last night I hear how great he is and he is worth every penny of his contract.   Nico has been given some great God given talents,  so use them and more importantly use them consistently and live up to the Contract he signed.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 6:51 AM

    Of course his numbers are going to go up if he is playing 8 minutes more per game.  It has too.

     

    But if you do the math, all of his numbers are virtually the same per minute of play.

     

    The Stats do not lie.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/17/2012 6:59 AM

    This is where you and I part ways Maniac. I am satisfied with having the Nic we have now relative to his contract. That said, I do, like you want to see consistency and would love to see the adaptation of that ever elusive triple threat ability...but am satisfied.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 7:06 AM

    Agree to disagree.  I am a tougher skeptic to please.

    Once I see consitency, I will be on board.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/17/2012 8:23 AM

    We just need to get off him finally and end this thread,he's good he's fine,no problems, I already pointed out several times what he needs to do to improve his offensive game and other then that, he's a great player, so lets just accept it and stop hating on one of our main dudes
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 1:23 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/17/2012 6:51 AM

    Of course his numbers are going to go up if he is playing 8 minutes more per game.  It has too.

     

    But if you do the math, all of his numbers are virtually the same per minute of play.

     

    The Stats do not lie.

     

     



    This simply is not true.  And it is not correct that more minutes equates proportioned better stats.  You are correct that there is math involved, but whatever math you are using to draw such conclussions is bad math.  A prime example "he had one good game."  What was San Antonio when he had a career high 8 assists?  That was a game, dare I say a good game for Batum.  1 + 1 = 2   It's math.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/17/2012 1:53 PM

    10 ast 5 blk and 5 stl is great and I am very pleased Batum has found new ways to contribute without scoring. Had Batum done this earlier in the year this thread would not exist. Batum is an excellent player and is starting to win me over. However, he still needs to work on his resounding offensive repertoire and his pressure defense but I will take the improvements he is showing me. 
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Mieke Appel
    Mieke Appel
    Posts: 18

    Posted 12/17/2012 2:43 PM

    How much more has Wes been making than Batum the last three years?

    I am a fan of
  1. Jihad Jihad
    Jihad Jihad
    Posts: 23

    Posted 12/17/2012 3:02 PM

    About 9 mil.
    I am a fan of a bottle of Tanquerray and a Shot-Gun.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 3:16 PM

    Posted By Mieke Appel on 12/17/2012 2:43 PM

    How much more has Wes been making than Batum the last three years?



    Matthews Batum
    2009 2010 $457,588.00* $1,118,760.00
    2010 2011 $5.765,000.00 $1,196,760.00
    2011 2012 $6,135,160.00 <form> id="ctl01" action="nicolas-batum" method="post">
    $2,155,364.00
    </form>
    2012 2013 $6,505,320.00 RFA
    2013 2014 $6,875,480.00
    2014 2015 $7,245,640.00
    2015 2016 UFA
    * Played for Utah (1 year deal) and became a FA at the end of 2010
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 3:19 PM

    Can't edit... oh well

                       Matthews               Batum

    2010 2011   $6,135,160.00       $2,155,364.00

  1. DaBlazer
    DaBlazer
    Posts: 13

    Posted 12/17/2012 3:34 PM

    Read 2nd post lol
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/17/2012 4:20 PM

    he is what he is a great run down shot blocker he's coming into his own and is improving as the season goes on when his shot hasn't been falling he has found other ways to contribute through steals, blocks, clutch defensive plays, clutch game winning shot, assists, etc etc he gets us extra possessions and stops theres with them steals and rebounds and also has contributed to other players getting scoring opportunities with them assists so it kind of even itself out in the long run hopefully he'll get more consistent offensively but for the time being he is doing exactly what the main bitch about him was and that is not disappearing when his shot isn't falling now that he has done that you guys got a new gripe about him lol 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 5:41 PM

    Of course it is bad math if it does nto support your position.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 5:43 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/17/2012 5:41 PM

    Of course it is bad math if it does nto support your position.

     

     


    So you're saying Batum had a bad game versus San Antonio?  Got it.  Credibility - Credibility = 0
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 5:53 PM

    I did not say that.  As I have told you do nto twist my words to support your opinion.

     

    If you ahve read my posts I gave him great credit for SA, and also for last night.  OK he has got two games of great play under his belt, I would like to see him play 8 out of 10 that way.  That tells me he is now starting to play consistently.

     

    What I am saying if can understand, minute for minute compared to last year his production is the same.

     

    You have your opinion and I have mine.  I have made my point and have my thoughts until he plays consistently and once he plays consitently I will be critical.

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/17/2012 6:54 PM

    For the last three seasons Matthews has made more than Batum but over the next season and a half Batum will have caught up and passed Matthews in career earnings. From there he will continue to make more than him as well.

    Rookie scale deals are usually a bargain and Batum is no exception but he is going to more than make his money back on this new deal. He just needs to make sure he earns it, he has been lately but it needs to continue.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 7:05 PM

     

    Wes came into the league undrafted and got a one year rookie conteract with Utah.  Portlanbd signs him to an offer sheet to get him from Utah and Wes signs it. Wes constently earned his keep.

     

    Batum gets drafted and signed his rookie contract and at the end of his rookie contract becomes an RFA and signs an offer sheet with Minnesota. Portland Matches.

     

    I did not have an issue with Wes's contract as he came to play everynight and was consistent 80% of the time and his stats back it up.  Batum signs a contact and now gets premier dollars which is fine that is the business but last year he was inconsistent at best and this year the jury is still out.  He had two great games against SA and New Orleans last night and has some good games about 1/2 the time in the 13 previous games if you go look at hiis game logs for the last 13 games, he has had about five respectable games and OK if you give him the  three games with the flu and and a sore back that brings him to 5 out of 10 or 50%.

     

    I ask you to compare the game logs of both Batum and Wes from this year and last and evaulate for yourself who plays more consistently Wes or Batum?

     

    Batum:

    2011-2012 - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players...?year=2011

    2012-2013 -http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players...?year=2012

     

    Wes:

     

    2011-2012 - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players...?year=2011

    2012-2013 - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players...?year=2012

     

    Now with reagrds to your point that Wes was making more, well now Batum is making nearly double which will make up more for the differnce in two years.

     

    I look at stats not potential.  As I have said multiple times once he starts playing consitently (two games in a row for me do not count) I will shut up.  Until that time I will voice my opinion and back it up with facts.

     

    AGAIN I DO NOT HATE BATUM, WHAT I HATE IS HIS INCONSISTENT PERFORMACE.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 7:29 PM

    The last thing I want to do is take something someone said out of context.  That's poor form.  So let's look at what you did say:

    HE HAD A GREAT GAME LAST NIGHT- Yes I said he had a great game last night and I am giving him credit and not saying anything negative about his game last night.

    Compare him to JJ, you know what you are going to get out of him every night, a solid 10 point game and 10 rebounds a game consistently. With Batum's natural Talent why can't he give efforts like he did last night at least 4 out of 5 games?

    Once he does that Batum skeptics will start giving him the credit and respect he deserves.

    I am tired of when he has one of those great games like last night I hear how great he is and he is worth every penny of his contract. Nico has been given some great God given talents, so use them and more importantly use them consistently and live up to the Contract he signed.

    You did in fact fail to acknowlege his career high 8 assists game vs the Spurs, or the OT wins on the road, because they don't fit your arguement. You only acknowleged ONE game.  So feel free to ammend your point if that's not what you meant to say.

     

    More time doesn't equal better stats, it only equals more opportunity.  To argue that it does simply is not credible. Nic has increased in virtually every category: BLK, AST, REB, PTS, FTA/FTM since last year.  His FG% is the only significant stat he's fallen a bit. 

    Nic had 2 double doubles in an entire season last year, and neither were in assists.  He has 2 this year after 23 games, one in assists.  Nic has 81 assists in 23 games, he had 84 for the entire season last year.

     

    I have no issue with you wanting to see more games like lastnight, or wanting him to shoot the ball better.  I take issue with the contract/trade non-sense.

  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/17/2012 7:32 PM

    Your opinion as I have mine.  You can take issue with anyting you want just as I can.
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/17/2012 7:49 PM

    Most of our team needs to improve their consistency. 50% is the magical number LA has been their the last 2 years but he has struggled early with his shot but hopefully by the end of the season he will be over that mark. JJ is shooting well above that mark this year at 56%. While it is difficult for wing players to hit that percentage it is not impossible and that is what this team should be aiming for. 

    Lillard has been great but his FG% is 20th for PG's that needs to improve.
    Matthews FG% is 15th for SG's also needs to go up.
    Batum FG% is 19th for SF's 
    Aldridge is shooting 18 for PF's
    JJ has been the lone bright spot placing 5th for centers.

    For a team with no bench we cannot have our starters shooting so poorly. This team shoots too many 3's and goes inside far too often for my liking, especially if we want to have playoff success. It is a long season though and hopefully these things can work themselves out as we attempt to build for the future. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/17/2012 8:09 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/17/2012 7:32 PM
    Your opinion as I have mine.  You can take issue with anyting you want just as I can.


    Mike Rice on Courtside tonight said that people with your opinion about Batum are "unrealistic."  I guess it's not just my opinion.

- Hide
   
  
 
 
   

    Recent Discussions

  1. tOfficial 2014 Trailblazer playoff Thread

    Started by Nate Caraway on 04/20/14 at 6:17 AM

    First Game starts tonight. Houston is a tough first round opponent and they play exceptionally well at home. If we can steal a game or two at their place, I feel like we have extremely good chances. 

    P.S. Would anybody happen to have a...

  2. Blazers quiz

    Started by cm_flippin on 04/02/14 at 10:49 PM

    There are many questions and you don''t have to register, you can continue as a guest. Didn''t know about Sporcle though, thanks.

  3. Free Agency 2014 + Aldridge's Comments

    Started by NickPitherUK on 02/18/14 at 6:57 AM

    We won''t have the cap space to sign any of those guys
  4. What happened

    Started by benh7777 on 02/12/14 at 10:22 PM

     

    The Blazers were winning!  That is the key word, were.  Blazers are living proof that you can live and die by the jumper.  Lately it has been dying.

     

    Thank God they are 19 games over 500.  Mayb...

  5. Spencer hawes

    Started by jamsmashers on 02/13/14 at 1:03 PM

    Hawes will be a hot commodity by the trade deadline, I would think the sixers could find a better offer.

    However, I do believe Mo Williams could have somewhat of  a high trade value. Olshey needs to make a deal to get a big man while we...

  6. Oh Forum

    Started by cmeese47 on 02/11/14 at 2:39 PM

    How I miss you. I want to take this time to appreciate the Blazers not appreciating the fans. 

  7. Great Article - Portland Issues

    Started by Tim Morrissey on 02/09/14 at 11:19 AM

    Portland Trail  Blazers: 9 Subtle Things Wrong with the Blazers

    Started by Tim Morrissey on 02/09/14 at 10:46 AM

Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  ... 
Active Forums 4.1
NOT LICENSED FOR PRODUCTION USE
www.activemodules.com
The latest from
Everybody
ChrisRob247 updated their fan statement / Nate Caraway created new forum topic tOfficial 2014 Trailblazer playoff Thread / aaronkoelsch joined group Season Ticket Holders / cm_flippin commented on Blazers quiz / kathymcc uploaded new photo / NickPitherUK updated their scrapbook / Qualab and RipCityRevival are friends now / daddy updated their Starting 5 / MJB uploaded new video /