Batum I hope you paid attention
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  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/05/2012 7:17 PM

    Nico you have played pretty decent so far this season but watching you get wasted tonight by Paul George. 

    Paul has the aggressiveness needed to take over a game which is something you still need to figure out. I would be scared to think of what he could do if he had your shot. Please learn from this game Nico and find that fifth gear. Until you can do that please donate 20% of your salary to charity cause you are just not earning it. 


    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/05/2012 7:57 PM

    I heard them say he hurt his back and was not able to play much.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/05/2012 8:22 PM

    Posted By riverman on 12/05/2012 7:57 PM
    I heard them say he hurt his back and was not able to play much.

    He played 30 minutes and scored 5 Points 2 for 8 from the field so he had one of his disappearing acts again.  If he was hurt why did he play so many minutes?
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/05/2012 9:30 PM

    Agree meese. The one consistency in Nic's game is inconsistency. Really, Nico should take a page from the book of his many supporters whom CONSISTENTLY have an excuse for his vanishing acts. Very weary of excuses, watching Wes play injured and finding ways to be impactful, Kobe play with the flu and drop 40+. Equally tiresome are the cries of "potential" and "look how young Nico is". Consider how many YEARS Batum has been playing professional level ball, forgetting this is his FOURTH YEAR here. C'mon. Cute works in bars on Friday nights, not on the hardwood and not for what your agent demanded you be compensated. Cowboy up or get run out of town. Two options. One choice.

    Before you jump me remember, I demand players play. No play, no pay...that's the real world you (the reader) and I live in. We don't have guaranteed contracts where we clock in every day. To ask, even demand MY financial backing while not performing, yet still collecting a paycheck, is simply ludicrous and hypocritical.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 12/05/2012 9:56 PM

    Yeah if he cant hit his threes he cant do much else. His passing is shown to be very good this season. But his offensive game is basically just threes

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 12/05/2012 10:40 PM

    Hit the nail on the head BDawg even though I'm a Batum fan I can't overlook what I'm seeing from him maybe patience is a flaw of mine there's plenty of games left in the season for him to earn his money but, like you said BDawg there's no excuses for him especially with his own teammate finding way to help the team while dealing with injuries.  
    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/05/2012 11:38 PM

    Last I checked, Batum was ranked 10th on Yahoo! Fantasy, 8th on ESPN Fantasy, 18th on Hollingers VA (Value Added) and 65th in PER.  I see a lot of over-reacting and over-simplified assessment grounded in frustration for the Blazers not being a play-off team.

     

    ESPN gave Portland a 0% chance of making the play-offs, with a record of 28.6 wins and 53.4 losses.  With a current record of 8-12, the Blazer would have to lose 40 of 61 remaining games (34 of which are at home, and 29 on the road).

     

    Batum tweaked his back going for a steal and landed awkwardly, was holding his back litterally every trip down the court, and was pulled at the end of the 3rd quarter after trying to play through the pain.  He did not play in the 4th.   The loss in Indian wasn't on Batum.  If Stotts had anyone that could play better than an injured Batum on the bench, he would have come out and stayed out sooner.

     

    Carry on.

     

  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/06/2012 5:15 AM

    Nice post Blazer Fanatic.  Very well written.  My issues with Batum in last nights game center around his production (or lack of) PRE-tweek, not POST-tweek.  To be a starting 3 in this league and command the compensation Nic has?  Scoring 5 points in a half while healthy is considered underachieving.  I will say in Batum's defense, he has asserted himself more thus far this season than in seasons past.  I expect as much, if not more however, divorced from Nate's system and given the starter role and additional playing time.  Still bothered by the inconsistencies.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/06/2012 6:06 AM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/06/2012 5:15 AM
    Nice post Blazer Fanatic.  Very well written.  My issues with Batum in last nights game center around his production (or lack of) PRE-tweek, not POST-tweek.  To be a starting 3 in this league and command the compensation Nic has?  Scoring 5 points in a half while healthy is considered underachieving.  I will say in Batum's defense, he has asserted himself more thus far this season than in seasons past.  I expect as much, if not more however, divorced from Nate's system and given the starter role and additional playing time.  Still bothered by the inconsistencies.


    BDAWG, I could not have said it better.  HE shot 25% in the field before the tweak. 

    I am so sick and tired of the Batum Kool-Aid drinkers justifying his existence and his great game of inconsistency.  He admitted it a couple of months ago that when his three isn't falling is game goes to crap.  Well why not try something new and drive the lane and get foul shots. He has exceptionally quick moves off the dribble and he get beat anyone to the hoop.  Agreed his defense has improved this season, however we are still ranked close to the bottom as a team, in Team Defenese.  I am not saying that is Batum's fault as that one comes back to the entire teams lack of heart and hustle on Team Defense.

    Against, Indy, Cleveland, and Charlotte, and three games what got them the win was Defense, and then on the transition they do not settle for jump shots they aggressively went to the hoop.

    Your last sentence says it all:

    "I expect as much, if not more however, divorced from Nate's system and given the starter role and additional playing time.  Still bothered by the inconsistencies."

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/06/2012 9:30 AM

    I have been proud of Nico more times this year but he needs to be able to match the intensity of his opponents. Paul George destroyed him tonight. Nico is more talented than George but he does not know how to play at the 100 mph that George does. I have appreciated his better passing, rebounding and more consistent defense this year but the effort needs to go up.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/06/2012 10:10 AM

    I too, have seen some improvement and have been appreciative accordingly. If you're a starting 3 in this league making over 10 mil/yr, you had better, at the VERY LEAST, be a triple threat. Nic has become that, though not sure if the bulk of that cred belongs with Nic or Stott's for using him more effectively than did Nate. Still need to see Batum step up the assertiveness, the aggressiveness meese refers to and look to put the ball on the floor and make things happen far more often...and with consistency. He undoubtedly has the ability and the physical gifts, using that will only benefit his team and himself. Frustrating to watch talent be wasted.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/06/2012 10:44 AM

    5 points! I batum could be alittle more consistent then the Blazers would be al least at .500. I'm tired of his lack of consistent play,this from a guy who whined over the summer about wanting to be in minnesota. Like I've said before his offensive game is basically 3's or scoring on fastbreaks,thats it,no post up game,no taking players off the dribble or creating his own offense,just 3's. You'd think he'd work on getting better,play some one-on-one in practice do something? And for people who say they are tired of Batum Bashing online,well its pretty well warranted,cause he had 5 points,I mean come one!
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/06/2012 5:23 PM

    I mentioned before on a post that we're not seeing enough ball movement and the glaring omission here is the lack of setting good screens to let the wings drive the lane. There are some team issues that need to be addressed and I've seen Lillard and Hickson chuck bad shots when Wes and Nic were wide open ..some of their misses are contested with the clock winding down but Damian is a rookie and JJ doesn't have good court vision or set screens very often. Nic will have the occasional bad shooting game as did JJ twice. One game JJ had 0 pts 0 boards, one he had 3 pts and 6 boards. Nic has never done that although he plays along with Wes some really good defense. It's tough on all our starters to pull off double figures every night with no bench help most of the time. We've won 8 games and Nic and LaMarcus were a huge part of all 8 wins. Hate to see them thrown under the bus after every loss. Our team needs to adjust and personal stats are not the key to winning ball games. Teamwork however is.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/06/2012 9:05 PM

    Last I checked, Batum was ranked 10th on Yahoo! Fantasy, 8th on ESPN Fantasy, 18th on Hollingers VA (Value Added) and 65th in PER.

     

    ...  mmmm, this kool-aid is delicious.  Let's drink some more, shall we?

     

    If only we had Kobe right?  Batum has more steals, more rebounds, more blocks, and more 3PM than Kobe, and has shot 119 fewer shots and 80 fewer free throws.  210 pts difference between them.  That means if Batum took 119 more shots, and did not take a single free throw more, he'd be 80 pts behind Kobe, and 3rd in PTS in the NBA.  What's the Lakers record again? 

     

    LA has attempted 330 shots for 354pts (7th in the NBA).

    Lillard 289 shots for 366pts (8th in the NBA).

    Batum 255 shots for 322pts (18th in the NBA).  Batum is shooting 56% on 2PT attempts.

    Matthews 246 shots for 306pts (28th in the NBA).

     

    Batum is 6th in Blocks for all NBA players not PF or C.  He is 9th in the entire NBA in steals.  He is tied for 3rd in the NBA in 3PM.  Of the 13 NBA players that have made 40 or more 3P field goals, 6 of them are shooting a better FG% than Batum, and 6 are shooting worse.  He is also above average of those 13 for getting to the free throw line.  Wes Matthews is among the 13 with 42 3PM, and gotten 5 more FTA and 2 fewer FTM.  Lillard is among the 13 with 5 3PM, and gotten 15 mroe FTA and 13 more FTM.

     

    Lillard .436 FG%

    Batum .427 FG%

    Matthews .427 FG% 

     

    Having issues with the Blazers not being a playoff team?  May I direct your attention elsewhere?   See:  Bench.

     

     

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/06/2012 9:11 PM

    *correction  Batum is shooting .488 2P%.
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 12/06/2012 10:21 PM

    I really don't mind the critiques on Batum. Scoring wise he has been rather inconsistent. But like we debated before, how about we share the critiques equally? I don't remember one post on this message board about the inconsistency of Wesley Matthews and how he is a streaky player. As Blazer Fanatic stated above, he is doing decently well. It doesn't have to always be about the scoring. Am I drinking the Batum Kool-aid? Perhaps. But I also am not about to bash a player who has indeed improved and is helping this team be semi-competitive. 

    I am a fan of
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/07/2012 12:15 AM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 12/06/2012 10:44 AM
    5 points! I batum could be alittle more consistent then the Blazers would be al least at .500. I'm tired of his lack of consistent play,this from a guy who whined over the summer about wanting to be in minnesota. Like I've said before his offensive game is basically 3's or scoring on fastbreaks,thats it,no post up game,no taking players off the dribble or creating his own offense,just 3's. You'd think he'd work on getting better,play some one-on-one in practice do something? And for people who say they are tired of Batum Bashing online,well its pretty well warranted,cause he had 5 points,I mean come one!

    honestly theres 2 different sides suggesting 2 different sides to weather or not batum wanted out and media always loves to twist things up cause contreversy sells anywayz olshey cleared up weather it was the truth or not nobody knows what side was telling it like it really was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu78G-McRZA

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/07/2012 12:35 AM

    were not losing games because of batums inconsistency on offense were losing games because we don't have a consistent bench  to rest our starters for a decent amount of time unless we wanna get ran out the building and so our starters are running on empty half the time 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/07/2012 5:54 AM

    How much is Batum making versus Wes?

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/07/2012 6:23 AM

    Alot more i believe
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 12/07/2012 9:15 AM

    I've always said his problems are mental not physical.  As was mentioned above, he pretty much admitted that when he can't hit 3's he checks out mentally.  He's a guy that needs the paycheck and the green light from the coach to believe that he can play in this league.  He's very, very weak mentally.  His gifts are immense and he has benefitted form the new system but he's still not all there.  Playing through injuries and slumps is the mark of a champion and Batum just doesn't have it right now.

    Comparing his stats to Kobe is absurd.  By his 5th season Kobe was what, a 2 time all-star and getting ready to 3peat?  Kobe has how many rings?  He was averaging somewhere around 28 ppg at that point in his career.  Please don't compare Batum to Kobe that's just dumb.  

    Batum has improved, we arguably would have lost a few games without him, and his stats look great on paper.  It's important to keep perspective though.  The new system and increased minutes has exposed Batum's mental weakness, and his absurdly bad ball handling.  His last 3 steps to the hoop are a thing of beauty, but he looks like a baby giraffe out there most of the time.  

    I was very happy to let him leave during the off-season but we're stuck with the guy and his bloated contract now.  I'm pulling for him, but he needs to do better.



    I am a fan of winning
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/07/2012 10:14 AM

    Marcus Camby made more the 12 mil last year playing for us. Chauncey Billups makes almost 13 mil...compare salaries across the league and Nics 11 mil is worth every penny in my opinion
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/07/2012 10:37 AM

    Posted By uprised on 12/07/2012 9:15 AM

    I've always said his problems are mental not physical.  As was mentioned above, he pretty much admitted that when he can't hit 3's he checks out mentally.  He's a guy that needs the paycheck and the green light from the coach to believe that he can play in this league.  He's very, very weak mentally.  His gifts are immense and he has benefitted form the new system but he's still not all there.  Playing through injuries and slumps is the mark of a champion and Batum just doesn't have it right now.

    Comparing his stats to Kobe is absurd.  By his 5th season Kobe was what, a 2 time all-star and getting ready to 3peat?  Kobe has how many rings?  He was averaging somewhere around 28 ppg at that point in his career.  Please don't compare Batum to Kobe that's just dumb.  

    Batum has improved, we arguably would have lost a few games without him, and his stats look great on paper.  It's important to keep perspective though.  The new system and increased minutes has exposed Batum's mental weakness, and his absurdly bad ball handling.  His last 3 steps to the hoop are a thing of beauty, but he looks like a baby giraffe out there most of the time.  

    I was very happy to let him leave during the off-season but we're stuck with the guy and his bloated contract now.  I'm pulling for him, but he needs to do better.

    Wow you nailed it about Batum.  He does nto have the mental toughness most of the time to play in this league.  I guess I have to accept that the Batum Lovers will always look at potential and not reality of the situation. 

     

    I said before I am not for trading LA.  However Batum my the trading teadline if he is playing the same way then as he is now, dump him and get good draft picks for a potential lotter pick or get someone like a JJ or Wes who is willing to go all out and play with toughness.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 12/07/2012 12:08 PM

    Honestly, I'm a believer in Batum, but I agree with uprised and BlazerManiac on this that he nees to be mentally tougher. But I think we need to give him just a little more time (yeah I know you're thinking at what point does this end, though)

    Point being, it was an adjustment to come over from France and play in the NBA, a different kind of game all together. It was adjustment to play as a starter, than a bench player, and continuously flip flopped, playing a system spot up shooter. Than playing with Canales as a coach, and now playing with a new Coach, in which even though he has a large contract, he is the third scoring option. In some games he becomes the fourth. The guy is only 23, and among all of this he is still trying to maintain his humilty & his sanity. Now many playes go through this, but when you go through all of this with the talent he has which he is conscious of, some of it will get to you and I think he's still trying to find his home as a player.
     
    He's just the kind of player where when the team is playing well, he is playing well, but if poor games occur on ccasion, he steps up. But he needs to grow his confidence, and confidence comes from himself, as well as time to be in this system with these new players. As long as we're winning a decent amount of games, he will grow.

    Can't tell you if that's a bad thing or a good thing, I think that just means he is not a leader, but he is a baller. Plenty of players in the league who have large contracts who are not leaders

    But agree he's gotta be mentally tougher

    I am a fan of
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:07 PM

    Posted By riverman on 12/07/2012 10:14 AM
    Marcus Camby made more the 12 mil last year playing for us. Chauncey Billups makes almost 13 mil...compare salaries across the league and Nics 11 mil is worth every penny in my opinion

    Marcus Camby is also a former defensive player of the year who remains an effective rebounder and was in the last year of a bloated contract. Billups is a former champion and multiple time all star. Batum has never won a single defensive award nor has he made an all star game or won a title so it is wrong to make those comparisons. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:08 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/07/2012 5:54 AM

    How much is Batum making versus Wes?

     

     



    You keep making the same flawed argument.  Wes is on still on the contract he made when we took him from Utah.  Compairing a contract made years ago, to one made this year is a false equivilance.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:09 PM

    I think Batum has played well enough to increase his trade value. I believe this team could get a significant return for both Batum and Aldridge. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:12 PM

    I'll take what Nic brings to the team over Camby all day long...Nic's 23 Camby's about 40 ..Billups was trade fodder for the first 4-5 years of his career and finally became an allstar and won a ring..it took time and patience. Nic has been a huge part of our 8 wins this season. He's improved in all areas. I like him as a Blazer.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:25 PM

    Posted By uprised on 12/07/2012 9:15 AM

    He's very, very weak mentally.

     

    Comparing his stats to Kobe is absurd.  By his 5th season Kobe was what, a 2 time all-star and getting ready to 3peat?  Kobe has how many rings?  He was averaging somewhere around 28 ppg at that point in his career.  Please don't compare Batum to Kobe that's just dumb.  


    Your counter argument to a Kobe comparison is a straw man for many reasons.  And it's clear you are resolved to your inflamitory opinion of Batum. Kobe is making 27.85 mil this year.  Batum is making 10.85 mil this year.  All the whining about Batum is coming from people saying that he Batum is not performing well enough for what he is being paid.  So feel free to disregaurd Kobe's stats this year, and Batum's stats this year, because you litterally have to in order to call my point dumb. 

     

    Mentally weak?  I could say the same about several of these posts including your's.

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/07/2012 1:28 PM

    Posted By cmeese47 on 12/07/2012 1:09 PM

    I think Batum has played well enough to increase his trade value. I believe this team could get a significant return for both Batum and Aldridge. 



    The "never happy with the team I have" fan.  Might I suggest NBA2k13.
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 12/07/2012 5:45 PM

    To address Blazer Maniacs question of how much more does Batum make then Wes: Wes actually to this point has made a lot more then Batum. He has made about 4 million more the past couple of seasons. So why were you not critical of Wes?

    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/07/2012 5:57 PM

    It occured to me.  This baggin on any Portland starter comes from the logic, "I can't bag on the bench because they don't play enough."  And yet it never occurs to Haters to consider or anylize why the bench doesn't play more or what the team could do about that problem... which is THE biggest challenge for the Blazers now.

     

    I'll take BLAZERS for $1,000.

     

    Wes 11th

    LA  6th

    Batum 4th

    Lillard  8th

     

    What are the ranks of how many minutes each play relative to the entire NBA? 

     

    Correct.

     

    Go read Tone's most recent blog about being on the road and being tired.  If you are human, you get tired.  It's science.

  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/07/2012 7:22 PM

    These people are not human they are millionares. Vons clerks get tired.
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/07/2012 8:50 PM

    To anwer your question.  His salary was reasonable compared to what Batum is getting paid now.  Batum is a 7th year pro (if you include France) and his stats are virtually the same as Matthews. 

    Now to clarify, since the 2010-2011 season to present, Wes has averaged 15 pts per game and Batum has average 13.5 per game.

    Yes I wold be critical of Wes if his hustle/heart factor and work ethic was lacking.  It hardly ever is.

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/07/2012 9:09 PM

    Maniac:  Joel Freeland is a Rookie now that he has come to Portland.  Arvidas Sabonis was a rookie when he came to Portland.  I don't include France as PRO, and neither does the NBA.  This included contracts.

     

    Lambasting Batum over percieved effort and heart, while ignoring his actual stats, and several clutch steals, blocks and BUCK3TS, is poor form for any Blazer fan.  It's one thing to point out areas you'd like to see improvement.  It's entirely different to make your entire premise revolve around him not being worth his contract devoid of his tangible and easily varifiable contributions that prove he is worth every penny.  I know this will be an ongoing rant after every game for the entire year until Portland wins the NBA championship.  So, I'll leave you to it, as we aren't going to agree.

     

    And Von's?  Totally the same thing as averaging 39 minutes over 19 NBA game against the best athletes in basketball, and producing the numbers he is (which I have posted for the incredulous none-believers several times already).  Great point.  We have to trade Batum now!

  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 12/07/2012 10:13 PM

    Lol I love this..
    I am a fan of
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 12/08/2012 9:56 PM

    Haha this whole thing is silly. It's a never ending circle of one side not even listening and name calling while we all try to look at a never ending amount of statistics to prove something that is not even provable after a bit into the season.

    I am a fan of
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/09/2012 1:31 AM

    trade off every player even our rookies for draft picks they've all had off games and don't deserve to wear a blazers jersey 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/09/2012 7:26 AM

    Thats kinda whats sports is about schwabbii,endless debates,some about things that don't even matter cause blazers are horrible anyway
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/09/2012 7:43 AM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 12/09/2012 7:26 AM
    Thats kinda whats sports is about schwabbii,endless debates,some about things that don't even matter cause blazers are horrible anyway


    Could not have said better
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/09/2012 9:02 AM

    Points, arguments, conversation, debate...all this can be accomplished without personally attacking other fans on the board, without condescending remarks and insults.  Carry on, but please do so with respect for your fellow fans.  Everyone on our board share a common interest.  We all want this team, this franchise to enjoy success.  We will get there.  Patience.  Bring your opinions, your statistics, your thoughts and your feelings...just do so while respecting each other.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/09/2012 10:15 AM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/09/2012 9:02 AM
    Points, arguments, conversation, debate...all this can be accomplished without personally attacking other fans on the board, without condescending remarks and insults.  Carry on, but please do so with respect for your fellow fans.  Everyone on our board share a common interest.  We all want this team, this franchise to enjoy success.  We will get there.  Patience.  Bring your opinions, your statistics, your thoughts and your feelings...just do so while respecting each other.

    Thanks for the reminder BDAWG
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/09/2012 10:24 AM

    Well said BDawg! It's depressing when the pitch forks and torches come out looking for the monster that's actually a nice guy.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/09/2012 10:12 PM

    I like what blazer fanatic said about my vons comments. i was joking,but my point is if you make more money in 2 months then 90% of earths population will make in your lifetime, dont complain about being tired, these guys dont even have the stress of having to worry about losing their jobs,cause there contract is garaunteed. So come on 36 min, tired when you can afford to have a personal chef,home cooked meals, gimme a fng break
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 12/10/2012 10:58 AM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 12/07/2012 1:25 PM
    Posted By uprised on 12/07/2012 9:15 AM

    He's very, very weak mentally.

     

    Comparing his stats to Kobe is absurd.  By his 5th season Kobe was what, a 2 time all-star and getting ready to 3peat?  Kobe has how many rings?  He was averaging somewhere around 28 ppg at that point in his career.  Please don't compare Batum to Kobe that's just dumb.  

    Your counter argument to a Kobe comparison is a straw man for many reasons.  And it's clear you are resolved to your inflamitory opinion of Batum. Kobe is making 27.85 mil this year.  Batum is making 10.85 mil this year.  All the whining about Batum is coming from people saying that he Batum is not performing well enough for what he is being paid.  So feel free to disregaurd Kobe's stats this year, and Batum's stats this year, because you litterally have to in order to call my point dumb. 

     

    Mentally weak?  I could say the same about several of these posts including your's.

    So you honestly think that Batum is better than Kobe?  Yes or no answer.  

    I am a fan of winning
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/10/2012 11:28 AM

    she doesn't if she says she does then we have a serious homer on our hands
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/10/2012 11:40 AM

    Batum has played pretty decent but he is no where near what we need him to be. 

    Here is his production over 48 mins followed by the man he is guarding

    Pos FGA Efg% FTA IFG% REB AST T/O BLK PF PPG

    SF
    16.2   .514   4.5   20%  7.1   4.0   3.2   1.2   2.3   20.4  
    SF
    13.5   .536   2.5   27%  7.0   4.0   3.4   0.5   3.7   16.4  

    As you can see from these numbers Batum wins most of his match ups but just barely. His opponents takes less shots but shoot more efficiently. Batum gets to the line more but is worse on isolation sets. Rebounding and assists are almost identical. Batum forces a few more turnovers than he gives up. He also is a much better shot blocker and draws fewer fouls. He also tends to outscore his opponent but much of that difference can be attributed to the attempts difference. 

    Wesley has been getting out played every night. 

    Aldridge is routinely winning his match ups but he really needs to become a center.

    PF
    23.0   .443   7.0   22%  9.8   3.2   2.6   1.6   4.2   25.8   17.4  
    C
    19.0   .571   2.7   33%  14.5   2.7   3.6   1.8   1.8   24.4   22.8  

    Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production

    Position
    FGA
    eFG%
    FTA
    iFG
    Reb
    Ast
    T/O
    Blk
    PF
    Pts
    PER*
    PG
    SG
    SF
    PF
    16.4   .472   2.3   34%  10.0   2.1   2.5   .9   4.7   17.3   11.4  
    C
    12.7   .750   2.7   57%  6.3   .0   1.8   .9   10.9   20.8   14.0  

    As a Center LA is getting 14.5 boards per 48 and drawing almost 11 fouls per 48. His eFG% is also miles ahead because he shoots less 18 foot jumpers. If we are keeping he needs to be willing to play the 5 simple as that. 

    While I like JJ he is not a natural 5 and is suffering big time defensively because of it. Things need to change on this team. 

    Trades might be the only method of doing it so it should be something to consider.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/10/2012 2:24 PM

    So you honestly think that Batum is better than Kobe?  Yes or no answer.  


    Straw man:  an informal falacy based on misrepresenting your opponent's position.

     

    The argument I made was not whether Batum is better than Kobe, it was whether Batum is worth his contract?  I gave an extreme example to refute the argument that Batum is not worth his contract.  28 mil vs 11 mil.

     

    We could make a separate thread to discuss who is better right now, but I wouldn't bother posting in it because it doesn't have anything to do with the reality of Batum's contract relative to his performance.  Rings, career stats, none of it has anything to do with the question of any comparison I made of Kobe vs Batum this year.

     

         Aside: This is what Kobe's 28 mil gets you today

    A 34 year old SG.  A 9-12 record.  Kobe's "elite" scoring has not resulted in wins.  6-1 scoring 27 or less.  3-11 when scoring over 28.  Kobe is averaging 22pts in wins, 33 in losses.   Kobe is a better as a willing passer, and that has clearly helped his team: 3.6 assists in losses, 6.7 in wins. But he also is not taking care of the ball very well:  4.5 turnover per game in losses.

         Kobe is on a team this year with 4 other All-Stars, a 2 time league MVP, and 2 league defensive player of the years.  9-12 record. 

     

     

    But back to my point, you couldn't trade Kobe for Batum because of their contracts.  Aldridge and Batum together doesn't work either.

    Is Kobe better than LA AND Batum?  That's a better question relative to my original argument, but still doesn't answer the question of whether or not Batum is worth his contract.

     

    People talking about Batum not being worth his contract, or saying he should be traded, I simply disagree with them.  And I have yet to see a compelling argument to suggest otherwise.  If you have a question related to tading Batum, or the contract he signed, I'd be happy to answer that. 

     

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/10/2012 2:36 PM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/09/2012 9:02 AM
    Points, arguments, conversation, debate...all this can be accomplished without personally attacking other fans on the board, without condescending remarks and insults.  Carry on, but please do so with respect for your fellow fans.  Everyone on our board share a common interest.  We all want this team, this franchise to enjoy success.  We will get there.  Patience.  Bring your opinions, your statistics, your thoughts and your feelings...just do so while respecting each other.


    ... and the owner, and the players.

     

    /signed

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/10/2012 3:01 PM

    Ah yes, the per 48 stat.  By it's very definition removes minutes played from the equation.

    LA 6th

    Lillard 7th

    Batum 8th (despite being pulled significant minutes from 2 games with injury)

    Matthews 19th (the difference between 9th and 19th is 30sec/game which was lost almost entirely suffering an injury vs Sac)

     

    My take away from those stats is, it's a team game, and the starters need more help from the bench before I start nit picking about their production.

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