Damian Lillard # 15 ? Really
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  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 09/23/2013 9:00 PM

    With the help of scouts, league executives, stat-crunching and common sense, we’ve arranged the best 15 point guards in the league:

    No. 1: Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers

    Numbers: 16.9 points, 9.7 assists, 3.7 rebounds.

    In a crowded field of point guards, Paul remains the consensus No. 1. He is a master runner of the pick-and-roll, an opportunistic defender (2.5 steals, leading the league for the fifth time in the last six seasons) and is capable of taking a game over in crunch time.

    He is at his peak and with coach Doc Rivers, a stacked supporting cast and new shooters Jared Dudley and J.J. Redick, he has the kind of team around him that can legitimately contend for a championship.

    No. 2: Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs

    Parker put together what was arguably the best season of his career last season, continuing to take on a bigger offensive role as Manu Ginobili ages.

    He ran the Spurs’ offense to perfection, but also had his best overall shooting year, making 52.2 percent from the field, a solid 35.3 percent from the 3-point line and—an underrated improvement for him—84.5 percent from the free-throw line. He is the engine that drives the defending West champs.

    No. 3: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder

    Numbers: 23.2 points, 7.4 assists, 5.2 rebounds.

    The Thunder’s hopes of a return to the Finals fell apart when Westbrook suffered a knee injury in the first round of the playoffs—a notable event because Westbrook had not missed a regular-season game in his career.

    Westbrook still struggles with his 3-point shot (32.3 percent), but he has improved as a playmaker and his ability to attack the basket and finish at the rim keeps him among the league’s elite.

    No. 4: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors

    Numbers: 22.9 points, 6.9 assists, 4.0 rebounds.

    A year ago, the Warriors took some heat for having granted the oft-injured Curry a four-year contract, but he rewarded their faith and then some last season, playing 78 games and achieving an All-Star caliber level.

    Not only that, but he proved to be a clutch postseason performer, leading the Warriors into the second round with 23.4 points and 8.1 assists. The next step for Curry is to attack the rim more, but in terms of shooting, he is among the best in the league—45.3 percent from the 3-point line and 90.0 percent from the free-throw line.

    No. 5: Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls

    Numbers: N/A

    There is no way to know how much Rose will be able to give the Bulls this season, after missing all of last year while recovering from knee surgery.

    He was the MVP in 2010, but considering he will need game experience to get his timing and explosiveness back, he won’t be the same player for at least a few months, if at all this year. But when Rose is right, he is a top-tier point guard.

    No. 6: Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers

    Numbers: 22.5 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds.

    Irving backed up his outstanding rookie year performance with a similarly efficient sophomore campaign, shooting 39.1 percent from the 3-point line and 85.5 percent from the foul line.

    He knows well that he is expected to make the leap to stardom here in his third season, and part of that will be to lead the Cavaliers out of the East basement and into the playoffs for the first time since the team’s last No. 1 overall pick left town.

    No. 7: Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets

    Numbers: 18.9 points, 7.7 assists, 3.0 rebounds.

    It was only a few years ago that Williams rivaled Chris Paul for the title of best point man in the game, but things pretty much fell apart once Williams joined the Nets.

    He was approaching his old form last year (44.0 shooting percent from the field, up from 40.9 percent and 2.8 turnovers, down from 4.0), but needs to raise his level now that the Nets have a potential championship contender in Brooklyn.

    No. 8: Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics

    Numbers: 13.7 points, 11.1 assists, 5.6 rebounds.

    Rumors of an impending Rondo trade were overblown this summer, especially as he continues to rehab from an ACL injury suffered in January. The Celtics are revamping with youth, and they will at least give Rondo the opportunity to make this his team before they decide what to do about his future.

    Rondo is the slickest passer in the NBA, and while he could frustrate fans and coaches with his nonchalance at times, he will have a lot to prove this season. He remains the best rebounding point guard in the league, and most don’t realize he shot 50.8 percent from 16 feet and out last year.

    No. 9: John Wall, Washington Wizards

    Numbers: 18.5 points, 7.6 assists, 4.0 rebounds.

    We only got a half-season glimpse, but when Wall returned from a training camp knee injury last year, he showed the kind of improvements the Wizards had been anxiously awaiting from the former No. 1 pick. He cut back on his turnovers and greatly increased his offensive efficiency, with career highs in shooting from the field (44.0 percent) and free-throw line (80.4 percent).

    While getting to the rim is his bread-and-butter, he developed a good intermediary game, and his midrange jumper took a leap forward. Wall still needs a 3-point shot—he has shot 24.3 from the arc in his career—but he has already diversified his offense.

    No. 10: Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies

    Numbers: 14.6 points, 6.1 assists, 2.8 rebounds.

    Conley’s performance last year was widely overlooked, but the Grizzlies, in trading away Rudy Gay, seemed to recognize that Conley had the ability to make up for Gay’s lost points.

    After the All-Star break, Conley averaged 16.7 points and shot 46.0 percent, up from 13.3 points and 42.6 percent. Conley will turn 26 in October and, with Gay gone, figures to continue to flash his newfound offensive confidence.

    No. 11: Jeff Teague, Atlanta Hawks

    Numbers: 14.6 points, 7.2 assists, 2.3 rebounds.

    Teague has finally secured the starting point guard spot in Atlanta, having translated his very productive season into a four-year contract in restricted free agency.

    He worked hard on his shooting last offseason, and the payoff was obvious—he took a career-high 3.1 3-pointers per game and made 35.9 percent of them, and shot 88.1 percent from the free-throw line.

    No. 12: Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets

    Numbers: 16.7 points, 6.9 assists, 2.7 rebounds.

    Lawson’s shooting percentage has dropped each of his four seasons in the league, which isn’t terrible seeing as he came into the league shooting 51.5 percent as a rookie and was at 46.1 percent last year. But the drop-off from 2012 to last season is fairly disturbing, as Lawson seemed to lose his short- and mid-range magic.

    From 3-to-10 feet, Lawson’s shooting dropped from 46.6 percent to 31.7 percent, and from 10-to-16 feet, he went from 51.4 percent to 34.6 percent. The good news is that much of Lawson’s decline came from an early-season slump—he shot 50.4 percent from the field after the All-Star break.

    No. 13: Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans

    Holiday continued to show progress in his fourth season, and was selected—probably prematurely—for the All-Star game. The big issue remains turnovers (3.7 per game) and unless he corrals his mistakes and begins playing smarter, he will continue to be a second-tier point guard.

    He did well to go to the free-throw line a career-high 3.1 times per game last year, but he shot a career-low 75.2 percent on foul shots. The thing to remember about Holiday, though, is that he is heading into his fifth season and is only 23.

    No. 14: Jose Calderon, Dallas Mavericks

    Numbers: 11.3 points, 7.1 assists, 2.4 rebounds.

    There is no question as to why Calderon cracks this list—he was incredible from the 3-point line last year. Over the course of his career, Calderon has been a good perimeter shooter, making 38.1 percent from the arc, but he was outstanding in his first 45 games, with Toronto, making 42.9 percent.

    After arriving in Detroit, though, Calderon went bonkers, making 52.0 percent of his 3s and finishing with a league-best 46.1 percent mark. He is 32, and though he is still a very good playmaker, he could stay in the league for a long time yet if he keeps shooting that way.

    No. 15: Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers

    Numbers: 19.0 points, 6.5 assists, 3.1 rebounds.

    Lillard is a blur with the ball, and that is his best weapon. The Blazers clearly were not afraid to throw him into the fire last year—he led the league in total minutes—and considering he is 23, older than the likes of Irving and Wall, that was probably a good idea.

    In order to make the transition to quality point guard, he will need to be a better playmaker, but he has the scoring instincts to ascend this list.

    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 09/23/2013 9:58 PM

    Common assessment, not really common sense.  Pretty cookie cutter analysis to me.  Click generator.  Oh well.  never hurts to be reminded of national perception I guess. 

  1. Rynomusprime
    Rynomusprime
    Posts: 1

    Posted 09/23/2013 10:08 PM

    I think Lillard is #8 possibly top 5 if he ups his defense and assists this year. I can't wait for the season to start! GO BLAZERS!

    I am a fan of RED HOT & ROLLING!
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/23/2013 10:17 PM

    I would worry if Lillard stays at this level after next season. 


    I would put Lillard on par with Lawson and Teague, I really like Conley especially defensively. Can Rondo maintain his current level without fellow all star talent around him. Wall looked good during the second half last year has he turned the corner not sure. 


    With a good season from Lillard it is possible he will be in the top 10 next season. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 09/23/2013 11:31 PM

    Rose shouldn't be on the list period after missing so much time. I think Irving should be higher and Lawson lower. Some of the guys are also the "go to" guys on their teams more than others. I'd probably have Damian at 11 on my list just gauged on last season. After watching Spain, I was not impressed with Rubio the few games I saw.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 09/24/2013 4:37 AM

    I would say Lillard at 10. Conley is better defensively, but Lillard's offence makes up for it. Jose Calderon is an excellent floor General and a great shooter, but again, he can't score like Dame. Dame is also better than Ty Lawson scoring wise, AND passing wise. And while Jeff Teague is in my opinion the most underrated PG based on explosive ability, Dame is once again a better scorer and they're pretty much the same when it comes to dishing the rock.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/24/2013 7:56 AM

    River I like Rubio doing everything but shooting the ball but he was not even on the list what made you bring him up? 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 09/24/2013 9:05 AM

    I brought him up because I eliminated Rose from the list and was scrambling for a replacement. I've seen Rubio highlights from the Wolves but I thought he looked very overrated on Spains national team...so did Rudy Fernandez. Dragic in my opinion is better than Rubio. In his favor, Rubio is a great passer. If I were to put another guy on my top 15 list though, it would be Andre Miller!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 09/24/2013 10:05 AM

    RIVERMANNN, with you on that Andre Miller statement. My favourite PG of all time and as I have stated many times, I think the smartest player in the game right now.

    And Greivis Vasquez is better than Gragic in my opinion. If guys like Ajinca look like legit players, you know you can't take all showings seriously. 

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/24/2013 5:19 PM

    If Calderon never had to play defense he would be higher on this list he is atrocious on that side of the ball. I think the same can be said about Vasquez.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Logic
    Logic
    Posts: 36

    Posted 09/24/2013 5:41 PM

    Honestly, I dont care what the people say about  how good blazers are. Lillard could average 25 points 12 assist and 8 rebounds per game. If they rate him at 15 It does not mean he is the 15th best point guard. The blazers are about team work basketball. Stats dont matter. All we have to do is put the ball in the basket and make sure the other team doesnt put the ball in our basket.
    I am a fan of Victor Claver Psyching out his weak minded defenders.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 09/24/2013 6:39 PM

    Posted By Logic on 09/24/2013 5:41 PM
    Honestly, I dont care what the people say about  how good blazers are. Lillard could average 25 points 12 assist and 8 rebounds per game. If they rate him at 15 It does not mean he is the 15th best point guard. The blazers are about team work basketball. Stats dont matter. All we have to do is put the ball in the basket and make sure the other team doesnt put the ball in our basket.


    Amen. ; )

     

    Rankings are a joke, litterally.  When national news like espn ranks Duncun, Griffen, M. Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, Noah, Horford, Chandler ahead of Aldridge (rank 25), with Love, B. Lopez, Randolph ranked right behind him in the top 30, you just have to laugh.

     

    Nearly 60% of the shots Aldridge defended against were within 5ft of the basket.  The opponent FG% on those attempts was 43.9, the 5th lowst FG% allowed in the NBA, behind Roy Hibbert, Larry Sanders, Elton Brand, and Serge Ibaka (Howard came in 10th).  Lest we forget, Alridge didn't have the luxury of playing with a center.

     

    Aldridge led the league for Cs and PFs in points per game.

     

    Rank 25?  lol  ESPN has jokes.

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/24/2013 7:44 PM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 09/24/2013 6:39 PM
    Posted By Logic on 09/24/2013 5:41 PM
    Honestly, I dont care what the people say about  how good blazers are. Lillard could average 25 points 12 assist and 8 rebounds per game. If they rate him at 15 It does not mean he is the 15th best point guard. The blazers are about team work basketball. Stats dont matter. All we have to do is put the ball in the basket and make sure the other team doesnt put the ball in our basket.

    Amen. ; )

     

    Rankings are a joke, litterally.  When national news like espn ranks Duncun, Griffen, M. Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, Noah, Horford, Chandler ahead of Aldridge (rank 25), with Love, B. Lopez, Randolph ranked right behind him in the top 30, you just have to laugh.

     

    Nearly 60% of the shots Aldridge defended against were within 5ft of the basket.  The opponent FG% on those attempts was 43.9, the 5th lowst FG% allowed in the NBA, behind Roy Hibbert, Larry Sanders, Elton Brand, and Serge Ibaka (Howard came in 10th).  Lest we forget, Alridge didn't have the luxury of playing with a center.

     

    Aldridge led the league for Cs and PFs in points per game.

     

    Rank 25?  lol  ESPN has jokes.


    Sounds like he was letting his man get way to good of post position.


    Want to know why Duncan, Griffin, Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, Chandler and Noah are ahead of LA playoff success.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 09/24/2013 7:55 PM

    "Sounds like he was letting his man get way to good of post position."

     

    No.  That's not what it sounds like.

     

    The study was presented at MIT Sloan, written by guy from Harvard, and it's evident I can't expect you to understand any study written by smart people, for smart people.

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/24/2013 10:15 PM

    Yah I read the article a long time ago. 

    Also considering I have 2 bachelors degree, 2 masters degree and within the year will have a PHD I must be too dumb to understand anything. 

    Yes LA does a good job defending his man when he is actually close to him posting the 19th best number of 44.1% in proximal FG%. 


    Problem is LA was one of the worst out of the sample group of staying within 5 ft of his man managing to do so only 23% of the time.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 09/25/2013 3:58 AM

    sigh why all the hate if you dont like someones post be an adult and ignore it its not hard.....

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 09/25/2013 10:05 AM

    Posted By fredisdead on 09/25/2013 3:58 AM

    sigh why all the hate if you dont like someones post be an adult and ignore it its not hard.....


    Thank you fredisdead! I find it strange that the threads with the most in-fighting get all the hits and the threads about basketball get little feedback. Maybe comments need a "thumbs up, thumbs down" icon and fans could just click off the comments of posters they don't want to read anymore. With this new team, there's a lot of positive subject matter to talk about. As for past disappointments, take a couple tylenol and get some rest. It's a new day! Damian will be a great player. Last year he was a great rookie. I think the best is yet to come. Most blog sites have more moderator interaction than this site does. It keeps the comment section from getting out of hand. Even better if we had more comedy in the banter.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/25/2013 11:27 AM

    I think Bdawg, common and blazer247 do an okay job as moderators especially since they are unpaid. Sadly the paid moderators Dustin Hawes and Sarah Hecht are no where to be found. 


    Personal attacks need to stop it is that simple. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/25/2013 9:10 PM

    *Edit* Please stick to the topic and try not to call people out.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/25/2013 9:12 PM

    To everyone who wanted to discuss Lillard's position rank I am sorry for getting off topic.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 09/26/2013 3:58 AM

    i see not only do we need a thumbs up and thumbs down button but also an ignore button.......

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/26/2013 11:13 AM

    An ignore button defeats the purpose of the message board if you think a post is breaking the forum rules then use the flag tool and report it. 


    If you noticed a few of Fanatic's posts were removed for violating site rules, so using the flag button does work.


    Anyways back on topic if Lillard makes the all star team I see it being hard for even people with an east coast bias to keep him out of the top 10 next year.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 09/26/2013 1:22 PM

    Posted By cmeese47 on 09/25/2013 11:27 AM

    I think Bdawg, common and blazer247 do an okay job as moderators especially since they are unpaid. Sadly the paid moderators Dustin Hawes and Sarah Hecht are no where to be found. 

    Personal attacks need to stop it is that simple. 


    Apologies for not being around, but I will speak for Sarah and myself when I say that we both received promotions this summer which included significant changes in job descriptions. Currently, we have no paid staff to moderate these boards. We do get the e-mail alerts and do our best to take care of the immediate problem. This board is for the fans and ran by the fans. I'll do my best to peek in and post my thoughts more often, but that is why I've been MIA lately.

    Thanks,
    Dustin
    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 09/26/2013 1:27 PM

    Posted By DHawes22 on 09/26/2013 1:22 PM

    Apologies for not being around, but I will speak for Sarah and myself when I say that we both received promotions this summer which included significant changes in job descriptions. Currently, we have no paid staff to moderate these boards. We do get the e-mail alerts and do our best to take care of the immediate problem. This board is for the fans and ran by the fans. I'll do my best to peek in and post my thoughts more often, but that is why I've been MIA lately.

    Thanks,
    Dustin


    Congratulations. : )  That's exciting.  If it's not too personal, what do they have you doing now?  Do you have more access to the players/coaches/mike rice's secret concession stand?
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/26/2013 1:51 PM

    Thanks for the update Dustin we missed you on here. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 09/26/2013 2:47 PM

    My biggest question for Damian's upcoming season is "Will he finally get some calls from refs now that he's not a rookie?" He'll have to have a phenomenal year to get an allstar nod in the west. I hope next offseason we'll reflect on Dame's progress and call him a top 5 pt guard. To do that he'll have to show the best he can beat them. I like his work ethic.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/26/2013 7:34 PM

    River I could see that but I think top 5 is max not sure he will leap frog Rose, Westbrook, Paul, or Irving. Getting passed Deron and Wall will not be an easy task but he certainly seems to have the drive and upside to reach that level.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 09/27/2013 2:25 AM

    derons better then westbrook imo and lillard is also better then westbrook  i also dont think lillard is as good deron yet(but we will see)wall idk i dont think hes that great hes fast but his all around game is lacking i alos think kyrie maybe the best PG in the league i love pauls game he's great player but i think kyrie is unstoppable and his team is terrible

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/27/2013 12:40 PM

    Those are some pretty bold statements. Why the Westbrook hate?

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 09/27/2013 5:35 PM

    just has more holes in his game then the rest hes very good very athletic he also plays with the best offensive player in the league

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/27/2013 8:34 PM

    With his athleticism he can be just unstoppable when his jumper is falling

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 09/27/2013 9:17 PM

    "when his jumper is falling"theres his biggest hole he's inconstant and just not a great shooter

  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 09/27/2013 11:14 PM

    Jose Calderon... LOLOLOLOL !!
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 09/28/2013 7:20 AM

    I don't see any other rookies on that list.


    Further, I would caution those having higher expectations of Lillard this upcoming season.  The young man led the league in minutes for a reason...a reason that no longer exists.  Point being, less opportunity, smaller numbers.  We have depth now, particularly in the backcourt.  Evaluate Dame on his effectiveness and impactfullness while on the floor, more so than numbers on a stat sheet.  His numbers almost certainly will drop.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 09/28/2013 11:22 AM

    That is why it is important to use advanced metrics like PER and other that measures efficiency. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 09/29/2013 4:22 PM

    A drop in minutes will mean a drop in numbers but I'm eager to see how efficient Dame is now. He's going to fresh whenever he's on the floor and that should mean his shooting percentage will be a bit better. (should being the operative word). Dame has the ability to be a 40% shooter from deep and with all our weapons on the floor he will definitely have that opportunity. But again we need to be realistic and I'm glad more than one person has pointed that out on this thread. If Dame can keep his numbers similar to those from his rookie year then I think he would have done his job. Anything more than 19pts and 6 dimes a game is a bonus. But I expect his shooting percentage to be better. I expect him to try and win more free throws and I expect him to play better defense. 


    Dame is a real talent and last year he showed that he could be a top 10 player in the league in a few years. Now is his time to shine. He can certainly do it and I have every faith that he will. 15th this year. 6th next year... 

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
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