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  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:26 AM

    Oh and horford isnt past his prime hes a 27 year old all star whos playing out of position. Of you compare him to aldridge he shot 54% from the floor while aldridge shot 48% he averaged 10 reb and aldrdge averaged 9 and he averaged 17.5 ppg and aldridge averaged 21 ppg. The only thing lamarcus has on him is he can score a few more points but hes not as efficient

  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:27 AM

    Best situation, like Riverman and Cmeese have said, is going to be to WAIT with the team we have, at least until February, when we will have more clear ideas of the value of our assets. Then, if we really do need to make a move, we'll have better options. Or, on the other hand, we'll end up seeing that the guys we have are pretty much equivalent to the ones you want, and it's better to keep the team together so they can grow together. As Neil and Stotts have both stated, this team is going for a roster with longevity, not a roster with a small window to get lucky.

     

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:28 AM

    Right, like I said, Horford and LMA are pretty much the same. Thanks for pointing that out, cuz that's exactly why we don't need to make that trade.

     

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:35 AM

    Ok so if we trade lamarcus to chicago which seems like it could happen at some point then who do you want to be our power forward

  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:51 AM

    The only reason it seems like it could happen is because Jason Quick was a bored journalist and put words in Aldridge's mouth, WHICH ALDRIDGE HAS REFUTED MULTIPLE TIMES. LaMarcus has stated he has made no mention to anyone about being unhappy, and when they asked him again 'have you asked for a trade or to leave Portland' he gave a very straighforward answer: "NO."

     

    Sooooooo like I said, stick with the roster we have, but when it does eventually come time to make a potential move (February at earliest), there is no reason to think it will have to be our allstar PF! And again, even if we do end up trading him, we should not be doing it for someone of the same age and abilities; if the rest of our core is younger and LMA's age makes him the odd man out, how would it help us to bring in the same problem? Do you understand what I'm getting at yet? Horford is not the answer. Period. I don't have a different answer because I don't think we need one, nor does Aldridge, Stotts, or Olshey. Not at this time, anyway!

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:04 PM

    Yea but we stay the same at pf get jimmy butler who is young and we upgragde at c with asik and get deng who is better than batum and would ve a good veteran presence 

  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:11 PM

    Let me make it easier for you to understand take out lamarcus and horford forget about them they just cancel eachother out now its batum and leonard for butler deng and asik

  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:14 PM

    Deng is older, and he's played better but Batum was amazing before his injuries last year (not giving him a free pass, but his ceiling is higher than Deng and Nic fits in our young core better).

     

    Asik, compared to Lopez (as current starting C) rebounds more, blocks less, scores less, boxes out less, worse on the pick and roll, AND will cost more, giving us even less space than the small amount we'll already have to improve in the next few offseasons. But yes, he rebounds alot. If our team is gonna do one thing by committee though, I'd rather have it be rebound than block. Keep Lopez til February and see what happens.

     

    So really, we'd be giving up Aldridge, Batum, Leonard, chemistry, and blocks... just to get Butler and some improved rebounding. Plus cost... Thanks, no thanks. Wait til February, and look for a move that makes significant improvement, not just lateral movement.

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:17 PM

    Yes, when you think of Horford and Aldridge cancelling each other out, than Batum/Leonard for Butler/Deng/Asik does sound nice. It also costs significantly more, and isn't guaranteed to help us enough. Lateral move with slightly better players for a shorter window. The Blazers have said multiple times that's not the path they're taking. Move on, please.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:43 PM

    How would this team have a short window our line up now is

    Lillard 22

    Mattews 26

    Batum 24

    Aldridge 28

    Lopez 25

    yhe new line up would be

    lillard 22

    butler 23

    deng 28

    horford 27

    asik 27

    our current line up has an average age of 25 years old the new line up has an average of 25.4 plus we still have matthews wow .4 difference same window

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:50 PM

    Posted By Blazer247 on 07/10/2013 9:48 AM

    I just don't see how trading away our core (other than Lillard) does anything more than gamble on SLIGHT improvement.

     

    Butler, Deng, Horford and Asik are all great players, but Butler is the only one younger than Aldridge, and LMA's age has been one of the big criticisms as to why we'd trade him: if we move LMA, then it's about keeping our core YOUNG so they can stay together for the future. Horford is good but past prime, if it was straightup him vs Aldridge I keep Aldridge all day. Same with Deng, he's good but unless we plan on winning it all in the next season or so, he'll be gone or worth less. Butler is a great young player that would fit well here I think, but he's more of a natural SF than SG, so balance could now become an issue. Aaaaand we've all had plenty of the Asik debate on other posts recently, so not goin there.

     

    Bottom line, this move is lateral. The idea that it would significantly improve the Blazers is a gamble, and at the same time it would shorten our window of keeping our core together.

     

    I'll keep my Blazers as is.


    Your argument is faulty. 

    Butler is only 23 not one year younger than LA. Horford is 27 so hardly past his prime. Deng is 28 also not nearly past his prime. Asik is 27. 


    Lastly, you suggest it would shorten our window, which is also faulty. LA has 2 years left, Matthews has 2 years left, Batum 3 and Lopez 2. That pretty much leaves us with a two year window. 


    On the other hand we would have Horford for 3 years, Butler for 2 plus restricted bird rights, Deng only 1 and Asik for 2. If McCollum is NBA ready then he can step in at SG and we can then move Butler to the 3. Our defense would not be as good but offensively the team would be more balanced. Additionally, we would have Deng's bird rights so we could pay him whatever amount we wanted to keep him assuming he wanted to stay. At worst the windows are the same. 


    I would agree the moves are a gamble but so is banking on LA returning to the Blazers in 2 years. Personally, I would much rather gamble on the team with better defense.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 12:54 PM

    Thank you 

  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:00 PM

    Wow indeed. Just so you know, when I was talking about our window, I was more talking about contract length/cost, and the age is really only a factor due to what people say about Aldridge (and the fact that most of the players you suggest would have the same problem). But let's do this...

     

    Do you not understand that if Aldridge is being seen as "potentially too old for our future core", then Deng and Horford and Asik would be the same problem? I really don't care about your mathematical averages, I'm talking about what the team has stated as ideals, perspective and longterm strategy. Plus, don't forget that we'd be losing the team chemistry, and paying more (also just heard this morning that Deng is asking for an extension at a higher pricetag, he sees his value as having increased due to the other free agent deals this summer).

     

    So like I said, again, this trade scenario doesn't get the job done. I would love to get Butler, and when February comes maybe it will be looked into, but it won't necessarily include LaMarcus because we'll have more assets with value to work with. And even if it does include LaMarcus, it would make no sense to get players 3 players with the same negative factor of being slightly older. Not enough gain, too much tradeoff, too much gamble for the intangibles we're giving up. I don't know how many other ways we can re-hash this same question...

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:02 PM

    I like what you're sayin about building a team with better defense Cmeese, but again, like has been said multiple times, why do it now instead of in february when we'll have more assets? I see your argument about contracts, and obviously the main draw is Butler, but I just don't think this helps us enough all-around. More to it than numbers.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:04 PM

    Haha Cmeese you misread it. I didn't say Butler is one year younger than Aldridge, if you read the rest of the conversation you would've been able to tell that.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:08 PM

    If you look at Butlers numbers they arnt amazing but if you have seen him play he is a great defender, plays with passion which is something we lack at times, and he has loads of potential and most people believe that he will have a huge season next year and for years to come. If you watched the playoffs last year he was a huge part of the bulls run and is a player that will help a team win which i dont believe batum does that great


  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:08 PM

    As far as the Lopez - Asik debate goes Asik gave up .497 EFG% against in a bad Houston defense, Lopez gave up .535 EFG% in an also bad Hornets/ Pelicans defense. Asik though had 6 more rebounds than his man per 48. He also made the Houston offense 1.3 points per 100 possessions better when on the court and 6.5 points better on defense. 


    Lopez made the Pelicans offense .7 points worse but did improve the defense by 3.6. 


    Of course none of that matters because the original team kept Lopez. 


    I am pretty sure we can all admit right now Asik is significantly better than Leonard.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. LexGrasser7
    LexGrasser7
    Posts: 16

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:09 PM

    Oh and your the only person who thinks any of these players are too old

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/10/2013 1:18 PM

    Posted By Blazer247 on 07/10/2013 1:04 PM
    Haha Cmeese you misread it. I didn't say Butler is one year younger than Aldridge, if you read the rest of the conversation you would've been able to tell that.

    Yep my bad. Only one younger. I see that now.


    The argument against LA's age was a lot of people wanted to see the core grow together and be roughly the same age, similar to how it would have been with Oden, LA, and Roy. 


    Batum fits well being only 24, LA being 28 on the 19th is a little beyond the core. But if the core becomes, Butler, Deng, Horford, Asik and Lillard then you have 3 key pieces 27 and 28, with Lillard and Butler being 23. 


    Either way I do not think age will be an issue for a while with either unit. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Jwalk0527
    Jwalk0527
    Posts: 1

    Posted 07/10/2013 8:26 PM

    New to the site, been checking here every now and then and felt like it was time to start stepping in, what I have been thinking through out this back and fourth between Cmeese and 247, I like the idea of staying with our current roster until February (at earliest). None of us know what our current roster can do, they could surprise us, so many are so young and 247 has a point, it wouldn't be much improvement, Batum hasn't hit his full potential yet and either has Lopez. Give them time to show what they can do as a whole.
    I am a fan of the blazers taking down the Heat!
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:01 PM

    How much more time does Batum need he has been in the league 5 years now. I do not have a problem waiting til the trade deadline either.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
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