The Official Batum Petition Discussion Thread
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  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/24/2013 10:58 AM

    I think Allen loves this team but I also think he has too many passions as well. I like that he seems to have a coach and GM he trusts but we know how quickly that can change. Plus I am not sure I believe in Stotts and Olshey.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/24/2013 11:11 AM

     

     

    I agree.  We need a single minded Owner.

     

    With Stotts - Defense wins championships he does not have it.  Jury is still out on Olshey.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/24/2013 11:16 AM

    So many offensive many coaches have been successful, because they have a defensive co-ordinator, which Stotts doesn't have. No said to win anything you have to be a defensive coach.

    Some people are drinking the Kool Aid, some are pushing for him to go, some (me) say give him till the trade deadline to prove that he can play like the first half of the season when he wasn't hampered by some 'injury' or the other. If he doesn't, trade him. Simple as that.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. sug81
    sug81
    Posts: 254

    Posted 05/24/2013 11:28 AM

    Okay this is just for the people who want Batum traded so badly, I have a question for you, what stats, and play do you think justify his contract? I agree his contract is high, but he is talented, what I would like to see next year is him creating more for himself and going to the rim more.

    I am a fan of that GRIT & GRIND
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/24/2013 11:56 AM

    Sug I would start with him outscoring Wesley Matthews. He also needs to get his FTA up and his FG% up and cut down the turnovers. 


    His defense was decent last year but not that good as he is either too weak or just unwilling to put a body on a defender.  


    Basically he needs to be more aggressive on both sides of the ball.  


    I think around 18 6 and 5 with a PER of 17.5 or better would go a long way towards proving he is a top tier SF. Either that or bring his defense up near the level of Allen, Bradley, or Iguodala and whatever he provides offensively would be fine.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/24/2013 9:18 PM

     

     

    I would also suggest if we could clone Wes's heart and put it in Batum.  I would like to see Batum play summer league against guys who are hungry.  Don't think that will ever happen.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/24/2013 9:26 PM

    Maniac he does not need play in Summer League. He does need to toughen up a lot and become more efficient.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/25/2013 6:43 AM

    Yeah, he was tripping with that Scottie Pippen reference. Nowhere as good as him, BUUUTTT, I think he can be, if he plays like a man. In Euroleague, you are taught more about finesse, and the fundamentals. He needs to put a little more muscle on, starting to look a lot like Tayshaun, and get more tough.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. Brandon Weinant
    Brandon Weinant
    Posts: 109

    Posted 05/26/2013 3:48 AM

    There is nothing wrong with fundamentals.

    The biggest problem with Batum is he is so unwilling to look for contact, and when he finally does look for contact and take some. People are all. OMG HES AMAZING ALLSTAR. Then two minutes later he avoids the contact on a 6"2 pg defending the hoop against him.

    I personally believe Batum has low basketball instincts. Sure he can block shots, he can play defence, and get some steals. But when it comes down to the split second decision on. "If someone does X, I need to do Y".  He just cant react fast enough, That is instincts. Not basketball IQ, it can't be taught. Someone just has to have it. 

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

    I've long said batum was and is overrated. It's been too long the fans have been told by Mike, and Mike. 

    "Oh it's this year, he'll do it this year.. We watch him in practice everyday." 

    enough is enough. Batum is the player he is. Personally hes my least fav blazer on the current roster.

    I hope he proves me wrong. But as I was told in high school.

    Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it

    I am a fan of defence.
  1. Tyler92
    Tyler92
    Posts: 2

    Posted 05/28/2013 1:37 AM

    I think Batum deserves longer as I have read through out this post, I did see alot of improvement from him last season even though he was injured idk just a thought!

    I am a fan of moving up in this years draft to select Victor Oladipo to play along side Damian Lillard!!
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/28/2013 2:36 AM

    His per 36 scoring and rebounding was down and his turnovers were up. Scoring was down because he was working in a new system, more playing time, and he was asked to make his own offence at times. Rebounds, no excuses, turnover were up because he was handling the ball so much more and became a very solid play maker at the 3.

    Scoring down is kinda justified, but 3 points less is a little disconcerting. I think he will pick it up next season.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/28/2013 8:57 AM

    Here are my three biggest issues with Batum is #1 by a mile is his lack of toughness. Part of it has to do with him being 200 pounds at 6'8". However, size does not dictate heart, look at JJ Barea or Nate Robinson both of them are 10 times tougher than Batum. 


    In 2011-2012 when Batum was playing for his contract he took major strides but after he got paid Batum regressed. If anyone gives me he was injured again I will choke someone, Bryant, Iverson and many others have played through far worse injuries and remained effective. Bryant has had separated shoulders, broken fingers, sprained ankles, sore knees, wrists etc. Yet he still went out and made sure everyone knew he was the best player on the court. 


    In 73 games Batum took 8 charges this year, when he was trying to get paid he took 31 in 59 games while playing 8 less minutes per game. 


    Batum's lack of aggression is another big issue for me. Shoot the ball, demand the ball, attack the rim 38 minutes 11.4 shots per game are you kidding me. Man up and shoot the ball, and if your shots not falling attack the rim. Cut hard to the hoop without the ball and dunk on someone via the lob or get into traffic and find someone to lean into and get to the free throw line. 


    Earn you money, when has anyone ever seen or heard of Batum doing anything for the Portland community? You make 11 million dollars a year, if someone paid me that kind of money I would live and breath that company. I would be out promoting Blazer sponsors, you would see me volunteering in the community, and I damn sure would do everything I could to act like a leader. 


    Batum until your giving me .45% and .38% shooting with 18 points 6 rebounds 5 assists a block and a steal per game. I demand to see more toughness, aggression and leadership. If he cannot provide those three things or reach those generic benchmarks I set for him then he needs to get off this team.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/28/2013 9:23 AM

    Cmeese, you can't really demand that he does anything, none of us can, all we can do is hope. And not everyone is Kobe or Iverson. Why hasn't any brought up that D Rose sat out a whole season when Shumpert who got injured on the same day with the same injury came back so much earlier? 

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/28/2013 9:43 AM

    Why hasn't anyone brought up D Rose did you not watch ESPN or listen to any sports radio during the playoffs. Rose talk dominated the air waves he was either smart to not rush back or a scared little girl who was letting his team down. 


    If I pay Batum 11 million I can make demands of him, because if he does not want to cooperate I have control of him and I can send him anywhere I like because while I might not always get great value out of him I can trade him to any team in the NBA. If he is unhappy here, it would all too easy to send him off to the Bobcats, or Kings just to spite him. 


    I do not pay Batum though so you are right all I can do is hope. Or come on here and demand him to be traded every day.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/28/2013 10:06 AM

    As in why hasn't anyone on this message board talked about it.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/28/2013 10:28 AM

    Probably because he is on the Chicago Bulls and this is a Blazer forum. Personally, I felt Rose was a coward he could practice and participate in drills and yet even when so many of his teammates went down he did not step up and at least try and play. If after 5 minutes of a game he came out and said my knee does not feel right then fine at least you tried. Instead he watched his get beat right in front of him and did nothing to help.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/28/2013 12:04 PM

    I am 100% with you on that. Speaking of 100%, when D-Rose says he was waiting until he was completely ready, that was bullsh*t. You can't get 100% ready in the gym. You have to go out on the court and play. That's the only way.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/28/2013 12:10 PM

    You probably can get to 100% in the gym but it will take a lot longer than if done on the court.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazers4Life
    Blazers4Life
    Posts: 1

    Posted 05/28/2013 1:31 PM

    Lifetime Blazer fan - been through the highs and the lows - I watch every game in a custom built, fully accessorized Blazer Fan Room, with news articles and clippings, highlighting the trailblazers history.  I have shelves of blazer memorabilia from every era - but what I don't have, is a single Nic Batum item.  The reason? I never felt that he had Blazer heart.  At first I was with the fans and I argued to give the guy time, let him get the "feel" of the game.  I saw his potential. 

    We all see his flashes of greatness, but they are so few and far between they in NO way justify his contract.  He needs to be traded but only for the right price, let some other team gamble on his potential - I would open it up for a bidding war and see what team offers the most for his "potential".  If you string all his flashes of greatness into a highlight film you can make him look like superman.

    The blazers are at a very fragile point - they need guys who will contribute 100% NOW.  We don't have a team that can let Batum marinate on the bench until his potential is realized.  His contract isn't one that we can afford if we arent getting anything out him.

    His problem is, well - you all have basically nailed it.  He doesn't have Jerome Kersey aggressiveness, he doesnt have Nate Robinson or Barea bulldog fight - he doesnt have Lillard moves or quickness, he isnt a great defender (except his chase down blocks from behind are awesome).  It seems like he decides what he is going to work on and spends all his time concentrating on that one thing.  Like this last season when he just worked on his assists, at the expense of career highs in Turn Overs.  His assists avg went up but everything else went down.

    He is at the perfect age where we can still get value for him - oh and by the way, I am sorry but I also believe LA needs to go (that is for another topic though).  If we all agree the blazers aren't going to the NBA Finals in the next 3-5 years what is the point in keeping either batum or aldridge?  Build around the pieces that are going to bring us to the championship.  Neither of those guys have the leadership or aggressiveness we are going to need to in the late rounds of the playoffs.

    One of the announcers the other night said it perfectly, they said something like, "Show me a team whose main star isn't an outspoken leader and I will show you a team who isn't going far in the playoffs."  I thought immediatley of LaMarcus unfortunatley.

  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/28/2013 4:35 PM

    Great First Post!

    Welcome to the Boards!

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/28/2013 4:44 PM

    That is how you post Blazer4life, Siccolo from now on that is how you post.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/28/2013 4:56 PM

    LOL


    I knew you would love that post. I can imagine how excited you must have been when someone else wanted to trade Batum and Aldridge


    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 05/28/2013 5:40 PM

    Welcome to the boards Blazers4Life.  I'll second (and third) the kudos for that first post.  If you have been frequenting our boards you know how many years I've personally been questioning this notion of Batum's "potential".  My point is...at what point, at what age or NBA years of experience, can we stop with the linking of the word potential with #88.  As you've said, a shrewd businessman will buy low/sell high.  If either Batum OR Aldridge are to be traded or lost at some point during their careers, now is the time to explore trading.  If we wait yet ANOTHER year for Nic to realize his "potential", we may be looking at diminishing value.  I would argue however, that the pre-wrist injury Batum is worth 11 mil IMO.  Will we see THAT Nic again?  The man needs to expand his game to include the ability to create for both himself and others with the bounce.  It's really just that simple.  Aggression is inherent with that ability.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. EZfasheazy
    EZfasheazy
    Posts: 8

    Posted 05/28/2013 6:11 PM

    I like this post..

    I am a fan of Team Chemistry
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 05/29/2013 12:21 AM

    Batum I would live with, IF, we can get someone of equal or more value (Two solid players). No way LMA. Frankly LMA isn't going to be our main star for long. He knows that. Lillard will be our leader (Even if LMA is the best player), and if we get good pieces, LMA will be a perfect fit us (LIKE HE IS NOW).

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/29/2013 8:25 AM

    For LA to be a perfect fit especially in the playoffs he needs to A. get some toughness (do not be afraid to blast someone coming into the paint) B. Spend more time on the block C. Keep improving his rebounding D. Work on his face up game (This will draw more fouls)


    If he does those 4 things he can be a great playoff threat for us if not we will continue to get beaten in round 1.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 05/29/2013 9:36 AM

    Definitely some cracks in the dam these days. I've been beating the drum for more than 3 years, taken many many lumps here and elsewhere, been accused of not being a "real fan" and consistent in saying a few things. I don't dislike Batum. He is an amazing athlete and a great basketball player. But he's mentally soft, and doesn't have the heart of a winner. This isn't rocket science, some people have it and some don't. The NBA is a league of superstars, so people that don't have what it takes really stand out. People are starting to see that in Batum. The excuses are worn thin.
    I'm done with excuses, I'm done with potential, I'm done with the entitlement. Batum isn't what this city is about. Portland teams need to have grit. This isn't Miami, LA, or New York. For a team to win here you are going to have to do more with less, play hurt, get paid less, get crap calls, deal with a less-than-favorable (MOD EDIT...refrain from slang please) schedule etc. etc. Wes gets it, Lillard gets it, JJ gets it. Those guys are hungry to win. It's laughable to me that Batum all of a sudden "wants to win now". Does he think because he makes 11 mil now he's a shot caller? He owes us YEARS of career highs before he can even speak about the direction of this team. But that's not going to happen. I think we all understand that now, so it's time to cut losses and deal him.
    I am a fan of winning
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/29/2013 9:51 AM

    Welcome to the flock my sheep your room is up the stairs first door on the right.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/30/2013 11:20 AM

     

     

    Uprised - I agree totally with your assessment.  On this board last year I stated that Batum lacked the Mental Toughness to play in this league.  One particular poster indicated that I called him stupid and just pummeled me and took every criticism I had for Batum and indicated that I was attacking him as a person.

     

    Batum lacks Mental Touchness period.  HE is afraid to drive the lane and get to to the paint.  As he and his agent said last summer, he does not want to be here.  People say, oh that was contract negoitations.  That is a bunch of Crap. There is a phrase that comes to mind, "out of a Man's heart, is really who he is" or something like that.

     

     If he wants to play in a finesse league, then he needs to back to Eruoball.  This is the NBA toughen up, get mentally tough.

     

    I like you do not dislike Batum (for you people out there who read it as I dislike Batum, remember your basic math, a double negative equals a positive), I cannot stand the fact it is now five years in the league and we are still waiting for his potential?  Batum as you said does not get it, he is not hungry to win.

     

    I agree, cut our losses and trade him for Assets.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 05/30/2013 1:37 PM

    Don't even get me started on it's Batum vs. it's Batum's agent arguments.  Either Batum is a clever liar playing games with the team and city he claims to love, or he really did want to leave.  Now we know Batum despite being French, has no class.  He did punch a man in the balls AT THE OLYMPICS.  But it seems just a tad hypocritical to turn down 7.5 million (which is what Batum is worth honestly) and then stick it to your team and play games to get the contract.  I mean, the Blazers had already said they would match any offer.  Did he need to salt the wound?  Then he turns around and complains about "winning now".  Hey Batum, the extra 3.5 million we wasted on you would sure come in handy right about now!  But you got yours right?

    I am a fan of winning
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/30/2013 1:54 PM

     

    You think Batum would be willing to renegotitate his contract to help get his winning now montra?  Not a chance in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/30/2013 2:16 PM

    I never heard of a NBA player renegotiate his contract right after he signs it.

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/30/2013 2:47 PM

    You cannot renegotiate contracts in the NBA.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/30/2013 2:50 PM

     

     

    Wishful thinking.  Well Batum is use to hitting people in the balls.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/30/2013 2:56 PM

     

     

    Check this article out:

     

    I cound this in the new provisions of the CBA:

     

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329408/new-items-added-nba-collective-bargaining-agreementContracts and player salaries

     

    • A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.

     

    Maybe there is hope

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 05/30/2013 5:10 PM

    Interesting 

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/30/2013 9:58 PM

     

     

    So I am reading this correctly, if Batum wants to win so bad now, he can ask to have his pay cut by up to 40% to help get more money under the CAP to WIN NOW.

     

    Will it happen, Not a Chance as Batum is to selfish. 

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 05/30/2013 11:20 PM

    Crazy I am surprised the NBA players union passed that. Still it is irrelevant Batum will never accept a pay cut.

  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/30/2013 11:30 PM

    We all know that wont happen

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 05/31/2013 10:19 AM

     

     

    I thought with Batum being French that meant he was a socialist and he liked income redistribution!

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 05/31/2013 10:45 AM

    Draft a small forward and another shooting guard and let Batum and Wesley come off the bench. That should motivate them. If it doesnt and they dont like it, trade them both for assets while they are still worth something. Im tired of holding these grown ass mens hands. You get paid alot of money to do your job, Do It !!
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 05/31/2013 5:48 PM

    Watch the profanity mister

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 06/01/2013 12:58 AM

    Ass aint profanity in my book lol 

    Common is a mod too so he knows what he can and can't say

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 06/01/2013 1:04 AM

    See his filth has already warped your fragile young mind

  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 06/01/2013 2:14 AM

    hahahah sure man

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 06/01/2013 2:43 AM

    Cp3 has punched more dudes in the balls than batum just saying
    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 06/01/2013 5:45 AM

    Nice Brandon roy poster siccolo
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 06/01/2013 5:47 AM

    Also props to guys who put pictures of themselves in their profile, only thing I give more props to I guys with a picture of hickson up there
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. RipCity 14
    RipCity 14
    Posts: 941

    Posted 06/01/2013 9:03 AM

    Chloe, you say the nicest things. And don't forget Kobe give Iggy's jewels a little love tap. Search "Kobe Iguodala" on YouTube.

    I am a fan of Raymond Felton. Haha, seriously though I'm a fan of Batum's Lobs and JJ's Slams.
  1. billyamick47
    billyamick47
    Posts: 168

    Posted 06/01/2013 10:12 AM

    Hitting a man below the belt does not make you tough. CP3 and Kobe are tougher than Batum but it is not because they have junk shot more people.

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