True centers vs championship teams
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/31/2012 3:11 PM

    Just after reading a lot of msg material relating to JJ and the need to have a true center for a championship. Sometimes I question the investment vs championship chances. For one, Detroit won a ring with Ben Wallace at center. Same height as JJ and great defender but no offensive skills. Miami won the second ring without a marquis center. Teams that threw truckloads of money at true centers without winning. Houston, Yao Ming  Philly, Bynum, Golden State, Bogut, NO, Kaman, Portland, Oden, Phoenix and Boston, Shaq. Denver, Mutumbo and Nene. Knicks, Ewing. It's a long list but there is a risk factor in commiting tons of money to expensive giants and it doesn't always translate to championships! Is it better to get role playing bigs to come off the bench? Also if you have a really big center does it make you play a half court slow game as opposed to a fast break team? Opinions welcome.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/31/2012 3:28 PM

    I should add to the list the Bulls who won with Luc Longley, Will Perdue and Bill Wennington at center as well as the Jazz making the finals twice against them with Ostertag at center.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/31/2012 3:41 PM

    Highly skilled big men are very hard to come by. The Olajawon's, Shaq's, and Duncan's are rare. Even when you get a great center their is no guarantee that things will work out. Just look at the Knicks with Patrick Ewing, Spurs with David Robinson before Duncan, or Yao in Houston. 


    It is fine to hope for one of these type of players as we did with Oden but winning comes down to defense and match ups. We do not have good team defense and we don't win a lot of individual match ups. 


    Lillard can be a load to handle offensively but he has not figured it out defensively yet. This does not exactly leave us winning match ups with the Russel Westbrooks, Tony Parkers, Rajon Rondos or Chris Pauls of the league. 

    Wesley wins even fewer match ups, especially when he has to face the likes of Kobe, Wade, and Harden. 

    Batum is a solid match up for us most nights but against the likes of Durant, Carmelo and Lebron we have no advantage. 

    LA is one of the best PF's in the NBA and should win most match ups or at least draw even against the likes of Love and Bosh.

    JJ does fine most nights which is why he is averaging a double double but against huge Centers like Howard he is at a major disadvantage. 


    For us to overcome these match up issues we need depth, defense and some luck. Our team is perimeter oriented leaving us to make lengthy jumpers and three's. We need to seek players to give us advantages whatever position they play.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. joe.k
    joe.k
    Posts: 14

    Posted 12/31/2012 5:15 PM

    Well I'd say that every time a team invests in a top quality center (a bynum, or howard) or a draft pick (oden...) they're thinking this cold be the next best center. and when we think next best center, we're not just talking about a good player, we're talking about a complete game changer. and i think that if you can actually find the next great center, It will  be as if you have the best goalie in hockey; no matter what your team is, they will always be good because you got him down there. so it's a risk, but if it pays off, it's way better than having a bunch of good, even vvery good players)

    I am a fan of Finding our new Brandon Roy - Thanks Damian!
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/31/2012 5:43 PM

    You make a compelling argument riverman, but we also cannot ignore Orlando's run with Howard, LA and Miami's success with Shaq, LA with Bynum, Dallas with Chandler...  all legit 7ft big men.  It's a team game, but those guys were game changers.  Who know's how far Houston could have gone with a healthy Ming, or Portland with a healthy Oden.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/31/2012 6:00 PM

    I was thinking that while we're looking for paint help, instead of a Shaq or Sabonis, maybe we really need a couple of Dennis Rodmans. Guess I'm thinking of the risk factors and expense. No doubt, Wilt, Russell, Dream were game changers who had one thing in common. They stayed on the court. Shaq had a run but with Orlando got schooled in the championship game, flunked in Phoenix and Boston but still was very expensive. Sort of like Camby for us last season..he made over 13 mil and what did we get for it? Maybe 7 good games? We still have an affordable 7'1 project in Leonard that's at least a season away from impact.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/31/2012 6:02 PM

    Duncan, like LaMarcus, refuses to be called a center.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/31/2012 6:41 PM

    This may upset some fans, but I won't be surprised if we have another season like this season, where we wait it out for even another year, when the fire sales will be even more plentiful, and resigning our guys may not cost as much, as the market on big contracts slowly recedes.  But there are a fair share of fire sales this season that we should be able to take advantage of.

     

    I look at the Blazers as a puzzle, each piece has a set of skills, physical attributes, and a price.  We have a hole at Center.  I like most of JJs skills, and physical attributs, but not the price he will command next year.  I don't see the point in forcing a piece into the puzzle just to cover a hole, even if you have to use duct tape and super glue to keep it in place.  Anyway, I digress.

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/31/2012 9:03 PM

    You could be right. It's the process that's interesting and sometimes puzzling. The NBA is entering a major transition next season with the CBA. I agree that the big contracts will recede and guys entering their prime as players are going to want an identity and security. Sometimes when you're home you're home. Everything fits.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 12/31/2012 9:19 PM

    I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that Fanatic our foundation is still drying but, I feel were moving in the right direction it's going to be a slow & painful process but, when the smoke clears and if we play our card right with the future talent we bring in we should be in position to make our move to become a team who just looks for small pieces here and there to help on our quest to be a contender.

     

    As for big men I feel that Leonard could be that big man for us the problem is he has no big man to show him the ropes Camby would of be huge for him if he was still here, basically Leonord is trying to learn how to swim with the sharks on his own and he's just trying to stay above water, if we can get the right big man in his ear to help him grow we will be in good shape because I can't pass on a guy who has a nice shooting touch like Leonard because you can keep him out there when the game gets tight because he's a pretty solid FT shooter.

    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. CarlJ1
    CarlJ1
    Posts: 399

    Posted 12/31/2012 9:22 PM

    I stand corrected Meyers is a damn good FT shooter at 88%.
    I am a fan of Respect, Loyalty, Honor & Pride the same thing the Blazer & their true fans are made of RIP CITY STAND UP!
  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 12/31/2012 9:37 PM

    I don't think it is necessarily true that any random team needs a true center to be a championship contender, but i think it is absolutely true that the blazers need a true center to pair with aldridge in the frontcourt.  Aldridge's defensive skill set is as a more mobile defender. We need someone that can clog up the middle and not leave the paint as available as it is now with 2 mobile defenders like we have now. We need someone in the same vein as a laimbeer of old...
  1. ubahn82
    ubahn82
    Posts: 27

    Posted 12/31/2012 9:41 PM

    I don't think we necessarily need a overwhelmingly dominant like shaq used to be...
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 01/01/2013 8:06 AM

    yea we deff need someone who can clog up the middle love j.j. but he isn't the greatest defender 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 01/01/2013 8:58 AM

    Posted By riverman on 12/31/2012 6:02 PM
    Duncan, like LaMarcus, refuses to be called a center.

    The difference though is Duncan plays center and LA won't. You can call your position whatever makes you happy, which is what Duncan does.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/01/2013 11:40 AM

    Posted By BLASER on 01/01/2013 8:06 AM

    yea we deff need someone who can clog up the middle love j.j. but he isn't the greatest defender 



    + 1
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 01/01/2013 12:09 PM

    Again I think the defensive liabilities we are faced with in the post are the responsibilities of the big man coach and the defensive coordinator. Young guys can learn defense with the proper training. Hakeem, Laimbeer, please apply for a job on our bench!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 01/01/2013 12:17 PM

    yea I think we'd have a better chance getting ewing then them either other any of those 3 would help tremendously 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 01/01/2013 12:22 PM

    Posted By riverman on 01/01/2013 12:09 PM
    Again I think the defensive liabilities we are faced with in the post are the responsibilities of the big man coach and the defensive coordinator. Young guys can learn defense with the proper training. Hakeem, Laimbeer, please apply for a job on our bench!


    I agree that simply having a big man isn't the solution.  I do think the coaching is as important for our young bigs.  I don't know that isn't already happening, as developing doesn't happen over night.  But I also can agree that bringing in a known big man coach couldn't hurt.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 01/07/2013 1:55 PM

    If Freeland makes vast improvements before summer and becomes Nick Collison-like as Stotts compared his skillset to...we might just be ok until the right guy is available.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 01/07/2013 4:57 PM

    It would be nice if Freeland and Leonard develop before the end of this summer.....would be awesome

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 01/09/2013 10:05 AM

    I've got my fingers crossed that Freeland turns into a bench contributer

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 01/09/2013 3:34 PM

    Thats two of us riverman.

    http://youtu.be/7GlXfVp34rA

    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
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