Why would you trade JJ Hickson?
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  1. rcam5
    rcam5
    Posts: 2

    Posted 12/20/2012 9:34 PM

    I saw some news that JJ Hickson would most likely be traded this year?  Why?

    DOesn't every team need that guy that does all the "dirty work"  Buck WIlliams and Jerome Kersey were that type and Portland Fans really value hard working players.  I don't understand why you would trade him?  I know he will be offered more money elsewhere but if it's reasonable, THe Blazers should match.


    What do you all think?

  1. DaBlazer
    DaBlazer
    Posts: 13

    Posted 12/20/2012 9:40 PM

    No Reason.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/20/2012 9:46 PM

    JJ...18-18 tonight without LA on the court. No way we trade him!! There would be a riot in the Rose Garden if they tried!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 12/20/2012 10:39 PM

    He is the only guy that really rebounds consistently night in and night out. Unless you get a guy that gives us some serious benefits, then no way!

    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/20/2012 10:54 PM

    The concern with JJ is simply a matter of trying to make the best team with the puzzle pieces we have, and the cap space available.  JJ's cap hold is like $7.2 mil if River is correct, which I believe he is.  I know if there is a way to make the money work, JJ will be a Blazer next year.  I think he wants to be a Blazer as much as anyone Blazer fan wants him to be.  Time will tell how we can make it work.
  1. BlazerManiac
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    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/21/2012 6:35 AM

    Correct me if I am wrong, there is no Cap Hold on JJ next year as he signed a one year deal worth $4m with no player or club option.  We would be stupid not to sign him to say a 3 year $15M deal with a club option for a fourth.
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/21/2012 10:50 AM

    No way they trade hickson! he's a badass,I love him,he's soo cute too
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 12/21/2012 11:42 AM

    I love him and think he would be a great fit for this team in a specific role. But, I'm just gonna play a little devil's advocate here to give this board some juice.

    Is this the JJ we're going to see year in and year out for the next 4 years?

    And if so, is this team, with added bench talent, a contender in a few years? Where can we really get better at?

    As of now, Portland ranks 2nd worst in the league in opponent's points in the paint per game. We have a pretty good perimeter defense, however. Without LA this past game, we let an abysmal 74 points in the paint from the nuggets, who only had 2 points outside of the paint! That's horrific. I don't care if it's cause they can't buy a bucket or if they have 5 lebron's on their team, that's apalling that it was even a game last night.

    If we're trying to bring JJ back at a salary of around 6-7 mil? That's to play as a starter, no? So where would we improve upon? I don't see any position where if you traded a player you could get an equal valued player or better valued player at (based upon age, defensive performance, rebounding, offensive ability).

    I personally believe in this team, but for all the trade Batum, trade LaMarcus talk.. I find it a lot less ludicrous to have a true center to play for this team. Rebounding is great, but doesn't defense come first?

    And if any of you believe this is correct but we can still bring back JJ as a role player, the other part to go with this is what does JJ want (if you don't agree with what I have said, then ignore this next part). Does JJ want to play as a temporary Center, who becomes a backup, even if he is getting significant minutes?

    Also, do you really think nobody in the league is going to look at this guy and say, "starting PF, potential all-star, we're bringing him in and he's going to be our guy for the next 5 years." And go and pay him 8-10 mil for the next 5 years? We wouldn't match that even if we had the ability to.

    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/21/2012 1:05 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/21/2012 6:35 AM
    Correct me if I am wrong, there is no Cap Hold on JJ next year as he signed a one year deal worth $4m with no player or club option.  We would be stupid not to sign him to say a 3 year $15M deal with a club option for a fourth.


    JJ's situation is a little unique.  He won his Bird Rights through arbitration (along with lin), and I believe we still maintain them, even though we resigned him, because he did not change teams.  So if we chose to maintain his Bird Rights, and thus, the ability to match any offer, the Blazers will have a cap hold of $7.2 mil on the books.  If they wave his Bird Rights, they can still resign him.  It's a double edged sword, because it reduces our cap space if we maintain his Bird Rights (7.2 mil), but it would allow us to go over the cap, should someone come in with an offer of say 10 mil, and the Blazers choose to resign him, they could go 2.8 mil over the cap.  Probably not the best explaination, but this is how I understand it.
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/21/2012 1:19 PM

    Posted By knorton181 on 12/21/2012 11:42 AM

    I love him and think he would be a great fit for this team in a specific role. But, I'm just gonna play a little devil's advocate here to give this board some juice.

    Is this the JJ we're going to see year in and year out for the next 4 years?

    And if so, is this team, with added bench talent, a contender in a few years? Where can we really get better at?

    As of now, Portland ranks 2nd worst in the league in opponent's points in the paint per game. We have a pretty good perimeter defense, however. Without LA this past game, we let an abysmal 74 points in the paint from the nuggets, who only had 2 points outside of the paint! That's horrific. I don't care if it's cause they can't buy a bucket or if they have 5 lebron's on their team, that's apalling that it was even a game last night.

    If we're trying to bring JJ back at a salary of around 6-7 mil? That's to play as a starter, no? So where would we improve upon? I don't see any position where if you traded a player you could get an equal valued player or better valued player at (based upon age, defensive performance, rebounding, offensive ability).

    I personally believe in this team, but for all the trade Batum, trade LaMarcus talk.. I find it a lot less ludicrous to have a true center to play for this team. Rebounding is great, but doesn't defense come first?

    And if any of you believe this is correct but we can still bring back JJ as a role player, the other part to go with this is what does JJ want (if you don't agree with what I have said, then ignore this next part). Does JJ want to play as a temporary Center, who becomes a backup, even if he is getting significant minutes?

    Also, do you really think nobody in the league is going to look at this guy and say, "starting PF, potential all-star, we're bringing him in and he's going to be our guy for the next 5 years." And go and pay him 8-10 mil for the next 5 years? We wouldn't match that even if we had the ability to.


    personally thats a good point my question is if we couldn't get him as a role player and we went with a legit c ...... who would serve us best @ the pf position going forward trading lamarcus or trading hickson? real tough question cause I personally love them both 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/21/2012 2:27 PM

    Thanks for clarifying.  I still say sign him.  He gives double, doudle effort almost every night and that is rare in this league. 
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/21/2012 4:51 PM

    He's really evolved into a top level talent,cant let him go if the blazers wanna convince the fans they are trying to improve
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/21/2012 6:12 PM

     

    Found this information regarding JJ Hickson:

     

    Previously, Hickson's cap hold would have been $4.4 million and the Blazers would have needed to use salary cap space (if under the salary cap) or one of their exceptions -- most likely the mid-level -- (if over the salary cap) to re-sign Hickson.

     

    With this ruling, Hickson's cap hold increases to $5.9 million, cutting into Portland's cap space slightly for the time being. However, the Blazers can now sign Hickson with cap space (if under the salary cap) or they can re-sign him without needing to use the mid-level exception or any other exceptions (if they go over the cap). Portland can also now offer Hickson a 5-year contract rather than a 4-year deal previously.

     

    The ruling essentially puts Hickson into the same boat as forward Nicolas Batum. From an order of operations standpoint, the Blazers can now theoretically load up on salary in advance of the free agency period without worrying that the presence of incoming salary will compromise their ability to retain Hickson. It also frees up the mid-level exception for use on another free agent if the Blazers wind up over the salary cap.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/22/2012 6:57 AM

    Breakfast and CBA/Salary Cap chat... delicious.

     

    That was the explanation of the 2012 free agency Maniac. What I was referring to is next year, 2013 free agency. JJ's cap hold will be $7.2 mil instead of $5.9 mil. IF the Blazers choose to claim his Bird Rights, it allows the Blazers to sign JJ over the salary cap. But, it comes at a pretty high price. That is $7.2 mil the Blazers will not have available in cap space to sign other free agents. (In other words, if the Blazers use all their cap space in 2013, since JJ's cap hold is already accounted for, they blazers could go over the salary cap for any amount more than the $7.2 mil cap hold.)

    The Blazers released JJ this summer, or didn't pick up his cap hold of $5.2 mil, because they were going after Hibbert - so they had an extra $5.9 mil in cap space. Same reason they didn't sign Batum till after they signed everyone they wanted to, because Batum's cap hold was only like 4 or 5 mil. The Blazers may not have been able to go after a max deal on Hibbert, or Gordon, or anyone for that matter, if they did not release JJ, and certainly not had they signed Batum a contract similar to what they did.

    But because we resigned JJ, and he did not sign anything with another team, he still has his Bird Rights, and the Blazers still have the ability to claim them next summer, and by doing so, automatically add $7.2 mil to their salary before we go after any free agents. Again, this would allow the Blazers to go over the salary cap for any amount above $7.2 mil (which automatically counts against the cap by virtue of claiming his Bird Rights) to resign JJ. The problem though is, once free agency starts next summer, that's $7.2 mil of cap space the Blazers will not have to go after other free agents. It really limits the flexibility in the summer.

    Maybe you know all this and I'm over explaining, perhaps even redundant, but if not, an example would be, if the Blazer had $7.2 mil in cap space before they make any decision on JJ, 2 things can happen:

    (1) They release him, and they have $7.2 mil to sign other free agents (and because they are under the cap prior to free agency, they receive a Room mid-level exception that they can go over the cap $2.575 mil to sign any free agents or split that exception amongst multiple free agents). The Blazer could resign him, but they could not go over their cap (plus the room mid-level exception, if the contract is 2 years or less) to do so.

    or

    (2) They claim his Bird Rights, and his cap hold of $7.2 mil uses up all the remaining salary cap, and the Blazer can't sign any new free agents (with the exception of the Room mid-level exception). But they could then sign JJ for any amount, up to a max deal, and are allowed to exceed the cap.

     

    Ideally, the Blazers would love to resign JJ. We’re under the cap, so the only mid-level exception we get is the Room mid, and we all know JJ is worth more than 2.5 mil. I forget if the trade exception we received from the fattie Felton trade is available or if it only was for last year, or if using it (assuming it’s more valuable) means we lose our Room mid-level exception.  Too much detail probably.

     

    Aside:

    The 2005 CBA actually closed a loop hole that allowed Portland to sign Chris Dudley to a small 1 year contract, and then the following year, far exceed the cap to resign him. Aside from a sizable cap hold of $7.2 mil, they could essentially do the same thing with JJ. This situation with JJ is unique, which is why the NBA went to arbitration regarding the Bird Rights of Lin/Novak/JJ last summer.

     

    Hope this helps.

  1. BlazerManiac
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    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/22/2012 9:16 AM

    Or very simply they could use all of the cap space to sign FA's and then go over to the $7.2M and pay a luxury tax to keep Hickson.

     

    Sounds like you  are a CAP expert, so why are you working for the Blazers?

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 12/22/2012 11:07 AM

    @Maniac, Fanatic...My question now becomes this: IS there a player in the '13 FA class with the potential to be as impactful on this team as Hicky? A better fit, both on and off the floor? In the community? For me, the answer is no. Both the FA class and upcoming draft class look weak, granted it's still very early in the NCAA season, and kids always emerge as prospects from relative anonymity as their season progresses.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/22/2012 11:20 AM

    I think we should take a serious look at the 2 players we have stashed in Greece. I watched film on one of them and he was really impressive. I also think our scouts should do what the Spurs do and really keep an eye on the D league since this draft is so weak. Ainge, Olshey and almost every GM at the Maui invitational said there was not one first round talent there.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/22/2012 1:35 PM

    I doubt it,Hickson has made a phenominal impact on the blazers last season and now this season,he's also still relativley young,so to let him go would be crazy and probably piss off alot of fans
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/22/2012 6:09 PM

    Posted By BDawg on 12/22/2012 11:07 AM
    @Maniac, Fanatic...My question now becomes this: IS there a player in the '13 FA class with the potential to be as impactful on this team as Hicky? A better fit, both on and off the floor? In the community? For me, the answer is no. Both the FA class and upcoming draft class look weak, granted it's still very early in the NCAA season, and kids always emerge as prospects from relative anonymity as their season progresses.


    Most fans don't have a great understanding of the CBA or how the salary cap works, and then express their displeasure for not doing what may seem obvoius (like signing Hickson).  I would hope that people would understand it before making suggestion on what to do, and be able to explain how a trade or signing would work, let alone move this franchize forward.

     

    I don't have a specific free agent(s) that I think we should target off the top of my head. Hickson plays hard every night for Portland, and certainly exceeds the value we are currently paying him.  The next question is really where all this cap talk comes into play.  We CAN resign Hickson, most Blazer fans say we need to, and the Blazers FO would certainly love to keep him.  But what does the TEAM need?  If the Blazers make a move for, random example, Gortat, is JJ really worth 8-10 mil to come off the bench?  

     

    The Blazerrs gave JJ 2 chances, last year off waivers, and this year in resigning him.  JJ has made the most of it, the team is better for it, and Blazer fans could not be more thrilled with his performance.  If some other team sees JJ as their missing link, and the Blazers see shoring up the back up PG, starting center, and bench as a greater priority, I don't doubt JJ will do what's best for his finances and leave Portland.  It's arithmatics.  Will JJ sign for 5 mil, or will he want 12?  I don't know.  I'm just glad it's JJ and not Batum we're talking about.  I think he genuinly wants to be here in Portland.  Having played in Cleveland and Sacramento, it seems very logical why (as a city and team).  I think if Portland can swing a deal where JJ takes one for the team, and the Blazers don't have to go more than 5-7 mil, it's much easier to make that call.  We'll see.

     

    It's still very early.  That's really the take away.  We really don't have all the information we need to know how the puzzle best fits, and makes this team closer to being a contender.  We don't know what JJ would require to resign (other than a "cap hold").  We don't know what this team will look like by years end, or what the biggest holes to fill are.  We don't know who could be available in a trade.  And we don't really know which free agents, if any would best help Portland till we see what we've got after 82 games.

     

    I don't see us resigning him before the end of season.  I think the best we can hope for, is that we release JJ, take care of all other business while knowing what JJ needs to stay, and leave ourselves enough cap to resign JJ for 5-7 mil.  Much unlike Batum's agent who didn't want to work with Portland at all.

  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/22/2012 7:23 PM

    Hey BDAWG I do not want to trade him.  I say sign him to a modest three year deakl with a club option for a fourth for $22M for three years ad then an option for $8M for year four.  If the Blazers cannot afford to go over the Salary Cap by $10M when JJ is such an invaluable piece to the Blazers future then that will show more and more that Paul Alllen is more concerned about CAP then winning..  He is 24 and does all of the Dirty Work that LA and Batum do now want to do.  I want to see him as a Blazer for a while as he & Wes are the Heartbeat of our Team.  What more does he have to do to get the respect and a contract from the Blazers Front Office?
    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/22/2012 8:19 PM

    Over the cap, under the cap, it isn't a matter of wanting to save money or Allen being unwilling to spend, it's simply trying to field the best team.  When you make statements like "LA and Batum don't want to do the dirty work" or "Paul Allen is more concerned with CAP than winning," it just isn't a credible.

     

     

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/22/2012 8:35 PM

    I get the impression some think you can sign free agents over the cap without an exception.  You have to get them on your team first.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/22/2012 10:32 PM

    I'm confident we'll sign him. Players are learning that longevity and stability are getiing harder to come by with the new CBA. There won't be any Rashard Lewis 120mil contracts ever again so it's going to scale down. JJ is worth 7.2 million. Al Jefferson makes 15-16mil. JJs younger and faster. Depends on your value system but in mine, JJs worth a long term investment at a reasonable cost.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 12/23/2012 12:31 AM

    with the way jj's been playing this year not to mention the last few games where he has looked like an all star I'd say we'd be retarded not to sign him for a long term contract 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/23/2012 9:05 AM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 12/22/2012 8:19 PM

    Over the cap, under the cap, it isn't a matter of wanting to save money or Allen being unwilling to spend, it's simply trying to field the best team.  When you make statements like "LA and Batum don't want to do the dirty work" or "Paul Allen is more concerned with CAP than winning," it just isn't a credible.

     

     

    Well lets put it this way, ever since he became CAP conscious after the Jail Blazer's, how many times have me made the playoffs - three?  and out of those three how mnay times has them team gotten by the first round, - zero. And finally, how many times has he exceeded salary cap?  zero.

    The credibility is in the numbers.

    Now JJ is our dirty work player without a doubt, who is the player that some how some way is the majority of the time around the boards fighting for rebounds?  Yes Batum and LA have a different style of play, but they do not fight as tenaciously in the paint as JJ does. for credibility, look at our stats this year, we consistently get beat in the paint not only in scording, but in defense and that is becuase we primarily have one player who plays in the paint and that is JJ.

    Yes I agree the whole concept about fielding the best team possible, but you cannot be so concerned about CAP that when you have a valuable commodity like JJ why risk losing him to free agency than sign him before the end of the season.  Since Hickson has Bird Rights, he has implicit trade-veto power.

    So we cannot trade him, without his approval, why not sign him before the end of the season?

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 12/23/2012 10:30 AM

    Agree Completely

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/23/2012 10:57 AM

    Stotts has been the perfect coach for JJ. JJ is doing his homework and it shows! In a way all our vets are going through the rookie period with a new system to learn as well as new coach and when it gels, we can beat anybody! I noticed in practice sessions that Jeffries is often with JJ which is really good for his defensive growth.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/23/2012 11:09 AM

    Yeah one thing about our team is we have strong chemistry
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 12/23/2012 11:15 AM

    You don't just trade a beast like JJ unless the value you get for him is too much to pass on. Multiple first round picks comes to mind.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/23/2012 11:50 AM

    JJ has Bird Rigts so he can Veto any trade.  If we do not sign him to a Long Term deal before the end of the season, we risk losing him to Free Agency.  Why risk it?

     

     

    See Below:

    Players Who Can Veto Trades

    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/11/...rades.html

    November 17 at 2:21pm CST By Chuck Myron

    When you think of players vetoing trades, you probably think of a guy who has a no-trade clause. In the NBA, however, a greater number of players have the ability to veto trades for reasons other than a standard no-trade clause.

    The CBA stipulates that players who accept a qualifying offer or sign for a one-year contract that would allow them to have early Bird or full Bird rights at the end of the deal can veto trades as they see fit. If one of these players consents to a trade, he would only have non-Bird rights, giving him plenty of incentive to use his veto power. Players who sign an offer sheet, only to have it matched by their original team, can also veto a trade for one year after they sign.

    Below is a list of the players with veto power in 2012/13, including the only four in the league to have negotiated no-trade clauses in their contracts, a privilege reserved only for long-tenured superstars, as you can see. The players listed under the last two categories would give up either early or full Bird rights if they consent to a trade. If there are any omissions from this list, please let us know in the comments.

    No-trade clauses

    Players whose offer sheets were matched

    Players accepting qualifying offers

    Players re-signing for one year

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/23/2012 1:08 PM

    I think there is an important distinction about the word "concern."  The concern I speak of is trying to sign all the players we want and HAVE TO sign under the cap, before we sign all our current players we want that could take us OVER the cap.  The concern you have is "Paul Allen doesn't want to spend money."  It's the difference between fear and danger.  I'm trying to stick to a factual discussion of danger, not a mental choice of fear.

     

    There also seems to be a misunderstanding about salary Cap. There has to be a misunderstanding to think Paul Allen won't pay for tallent.  The Blazers signed Roy to a max deal.  They signed LA to a very large deal.  They even signed Oden to an 8 mil deal while he sat broken on the bench.  Do you think Allen thought Craword and Felton would not play for Portland like they are for LA and NY this year?  What playesr were we suppose to sign, and were already on our team, that would have take us OVER the cap?  It's the difference between fear and danger.  You're talking about fear, and there simply isn't any danger.

     

    You are correct that Hickson's Bird Rights means he cannot be traded, without his approval. But, it is as likely Hickson doesn't want to lose his Bird Rights in a trade as it is that another team wants to add a $7.2 mil cap hold to their salary. The latter is the issue the Blazers have to deal with, and why they will most likely release him and try to resign him.  I also think it most likely that a team under the cap won't pay JJ that kind of money, or trade for a $7.2 cap hold, nor would JJ necessarily want to play for any under the cap team.  An over the cap team will have to use a full-MLE (mid-level exception) on JJ.  I have no doubt the Blazers would pay that kind of money for JJ, and it would be millions less than his cap hold.

     

    What appears to be an argument about whether or not to sign JJ, is really an argument about when should the Blazers sign JJ.  I am of the opinion the Blazers should sign him AFTER we take care of sorting out any business with other teams or free-agents, and certainly not pick up his cap hold of $7.2 mil.  Even IF Hickson would agree to a modest deal/extention in Feb (say 4-6 mil), that doesn't help the Blazers in free agency if they are still unsure of who they want to target for trades or signings.  It limits their flexibility.  Giving him a contract after the Blazers have everything sorted during free agency would help the Blazers, and JJ doesn't end up making any less.  He could possibly get a better deal than a MLE type contract with Portland depending on how free agency shakes out.

     

    As for labeling JJ as a "dirty work" player, he would not approve.  He doesn't like to be pigeonholed, and said as much in an interview with J Quick of the Oregonian.  The only label really appriciates is "consistent;" and consistant he has been.  And we get killed in the paint WITH JJ.  He's been pretty fantastic from what anyone could have hoped.  He's been ridiculous in packing the stats sheet the past 7 games.  But to think we are be better off with him in the paint on defense rather than a legit starting big man isn't as strong an argument as some think.  But give credit where credit is do - JJ's defense has improved dramatically and is developing into an all-around, consistant basketball player.

  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 12/23/2012 2:03 PM

    OK so lets understand you, the Blazers are only look at an additional $3.2m to spend on a player that has proven himself.  Is that too much for you to swallow?  Again you are taking my terms as lack Mental Intelligence and "Dirty Work Player" to fit in to your argument.  I am not pigeon wholing JJ, in "my opinion" Dirty Work Player and Blue Collar Player are terms of respect.  Please quit taking this so literally and making them fit into the coversation.

     

    I am really coming to agree with BDAWG on how you will take someones opinion (and that is what these are, they are opinions) and twisting them to fit into what you are saying.

     

    Please do not accuse me or anyone of when we disagree with you to reacting in fear.  From your postings you come across as the only person on this board who knows what they are talking about and how Players are thinking (like JJ).  Please respect other peoples opinions and when you do not agree do not go into a diatribe trying to justify your opinion and making statements like:

     

    The concern you have is "Paul Allen doesn't want to spend money." It's the difference between fear and danger. I'm trying to stick to a factual discussion of danger, not a mental choice of fear."

    OR my arguments are not credible even though I back them up with facts and Statistics:  Are we not entitled to our opinions? or are only yours the one that matter?

     

    Correct me if I am wrong, we signed Felton and Crawford as we were desperate for Point Guards and we used the Roy Amnesty Clause to sign them.  Yes we signed them, but we still found money to stay within the Cap.

     

    So the ultimate question is, is Paul Allen wnat to stay at the Salary Cap or below? or does he want to win? or does he want to win and not exceed the salary cap (that is an oxymoron).

     

    Look at the results form the last 10 years the facts speak for themselves.  Do Blazer Falns have to wait until the 50th anniversary to have a NBA Championship?  I hope not.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 12/23/2012 3:35 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 12/23/2012 2:03 PM

    OK so lets understand you, the Blazers are only look at an additional $3.2m to spend on a player that has proven himself.  Is that too much for you to swallow?

     

    No.  But it could closes doors that could prove even a better investment for building a championship team come free agency.  Sp I am not for signing JJ to $7.2 mil or more before we know who else we want to sign or release for next year.

     

    Again you are taking my terms as lack Mental Intelligence and "Dirty Work Player" to fit in to your argument.  I am not pigeon wholing JJ, in "my opinion" Dirty Work Player and Blue Collar Player are terms of respect.  Please quit taking this so literally and making them fit into the coversation.

     

    Please don't be defensive.  My point was, had you been speaking to JJ, he would have taken offense.  How would you respond to him?  You'd explain yourself, and try to understand what he was objecting to and why. I'm not JJ, but I am human.

     

    I am really coming to agree with BDAWG on how you will take someones opinion (and that is what these are, they are opinions) and twisting them to fit into what you are saying.

     

    Words have meaning.  Sometimes we say things when there are better words to accurately describe what we mean.  You don't have to clarify, or even respond if you don't want to.

     

    Please do not accuse me or anyone of when we disagree with you to reacting in fear.  From your postings you come across as the only person on this board who knows what they are talking about and how Players are thinking (like JJ).  Please respect other peoples opinions and when you do not agree do not go into a diatribe trying to justify your opinion and making statements like:

     

    The concern you have is "Paul Allen doesn't want to spend money." It's the difference between fear and danger. I'm trying to stick to a factual discussion of danger, not a mental choice of fear."

    OR my arguments are not credible even though I back them up with facts and Statistics:  Are we not entitled to our opinions? or are only yours the one that matter?

     

    You took what I said completely out of context.  I was a metephor like on an SAT question:  A is to B, as C is to what?   C and D  are fear and danger and not the same thing as A and B, but similar in relationship.

     

    Correct me if I am wrong, we signed Felton and Crawford as we were desperate for Point Guards and we used the Roy Amnesty Clause to sign them.  Yes we signed them, but we still found money to stay within the Cap.

     

    Because you could not sign either over the cap without an and exception.  We had to amnesty Roy to sign them as a matter of fact.  Can we sign them if Roy's salary is still on the books?  Nope.

     

    So the ultimate question is, is Paul Allen wnat to stay at the Salary Cap or below? or does he want to win? or does he want to win and not exceed the salary cap (that is an oxymoron).

     

    It can seem that way if you don't understand the new CBA or salary cap.  Teams go over the cap resigning their players.  We are not a championship team now.  We are missing significant pieces.  You cannot go over the cap (save a MLE) to sign free agents.  And we are short more than what 1 MLE contract could bring in.

     

    Look at the results form the last 10 years the facts speak for themselves.  Do Blazer Falns have to wait until the 50th anniversary to have a NBA Championship?  I hope not.

     

     I hope not. Trying to recover from losing, with no compensation, your ROY All-Star and your #1 pick future All-Star center in the draft takes time.



  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 12/24/2012 11:26 AM

    My understanding is that Paul Allen can spend his money anyway it suits him. That's the great thing about owning a team. He's always spent money to improve the team and last year with Felton and Crawford we didn't have the cap restrictions the league faces this season. I have no doubt he's in the process of building a competitive team here and think that it's only Dec...last year the first game started around Xmas. Paul hired a coach known for developing young players and that's not something that happens early in the season. Last season we fired a coach, traded away the core of the team and operated without a GM or permanent coach. Hard to compare the two. We also tried to turn a former 6 man of the year into a pt guard. That didn't work out. I say trust Olshey, Allen and Stotts to build something here but don't demolish the structure before it's got a roof on it. Sometime just to get perspective add up the collective salaries of Thomas, Crawford, Felton and Wallace and see how expensive that roster was...it's surprising. Not counting what we had to pay Roy when we waived him or Oden. Sometime look at OKCs record the first season under Brooks and see how few games they won..also surprising
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 12/24/2012 6:21 PM

    Our team is actually overachieving hell if we could beat sacramento we'd be 15-11,for a team that nobody expected to be near .500 when the season started,our starting lineup is one of the best in the league,and our bennch is actually playing better and improving,a few years from now we should be strong again,hell yeah
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
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