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  1. jamsmashers
    jamsmashers
    Posts: 297

    Posted 06/28/2012 9:02 PM

    Not sure how many people will agree with this. Portland made a mistake at pick 6. Lillard may have been the second best option- Barnes was the first best at the time. Trading Matthews for another top 10 pick, and drafting Lillard. This could have turned out better; but i think we had the second best draft possible with our picks.
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  1. boomtown
    boomtown
    Posts: 272

    Posted 06/28/2012 9:19 PM

    LOL.  That's not going to be a popular statement with fans here and the GM already addressed it saying "it was an easier decision than you think".  

    Barnes is a SF, not SG, but you know when he came out of high school, he was the top prospect in the nation?  Now he didn't score 20 a game at UNC like people thought he would, but yeah, I'm a big fan of Barnes.  He can score in so many ways, he's got size, he's stronger than Batum, and I thought if Portland got Barnes, that it would mean Portland wasn't going to pay Batum.  But even at that, I'd say I like Barnes' future better.  And Nash or Marshall woulda been find additions at PG.  

    Thing about Barnes is that many experts say (and I agree) that Barnes is going to be much better in the NBA than he was in college because he never played to his full potential.

    Yeah, I am with you, but I think we're going to be in the minority.   Although I thought I saw DHawes say he was surprised we didn't take him when he was still on the board.  I didn't expect he'd be on the board.  Waiters going 4th was a surprise and TRob slipping to 5 had me licking my chops hoping he'd slide 1 more.
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  1. jamsmashers
    jamsmashers
    Posts: 297

    Posted 06/28/2012 9:33 PM

    Batum would then be sg then barnes sf, and it would have been easier to draft lillard at 7 or 8 or even 9 , and i also think  trading down to 5 for robinson makes sense to, just think of what we could have done, and we didn't because we were just too set on lillard, which i'm not sure was the best thing for us
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  1. boomtown
    boomtown
    Posts: 272

    Posted 06/28/2012 10:22 PM

    lillard's nifty with the ball, automatic at the free throw line, he's a real good shooter, so if you guard him on the perimeter, he can take it to the hole and draw fouls.  He brings a lot fans will like, and I didn't think portland was going to trade matthews or move up with 11.  If anything, I thought they'd move down.  

    I don't consider batum a SG, so I wouldn't want to move him there.  

    Thing is, Portland had so many options ... packaging both picks to move up, but in the end, they took team needs.  People say Portland took the best players available, but that's the dumbest pile of horseshit you'll ever hear and don't ever repeat that.  If it were true, Portland would have taken Barnes because he was projected higher.

    Man, when Robinson was on the board at 5, I was thinking please please please... that would have been quite the conundrum.  I'm sure Olshey would never be honest about it, but if TRob had slipped to 6, I think Portland would have been insane not to take him... or if they really wanted Lillard, they coulda traded down a spot or two and got something in return.  

    I don't know if Lillard's the best answer either, time will tell, but he fills a team need and in the end, Portland just picked up over 50 ppg in offense, but they also got pretty solid rebounders... all of them.  All of them are good with the ball, maybe defensively we're going to need some help.  Yeah, we will.  And that's where guys like Drummond, MKG, or TRob would have been better options, but we'll see how it goes.  I graded the draft an A and while it's not what I would have done if I were running the show, I think our new GM did good. 
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  1. boomtown
    boomtown
    Posts: 272

    Posted 06/28/2012 10:26 PM

    After thinking about it, I'm actually kinda irritated because I just realized our GM lied to us.  He said before the draft he wasn't opposed to stockpiling positions because that's what he did at LA and that's how he was able to get Chris Paul, but he also said he was going to take the best player available in the draft.  I suppose my definition varies, or maybe you can just make up whatever definition you want for BPA, but it SHOULD mean a guy that's projected higher falls on your lap... that was Harrison Barnes and almost TRob.  Would he have taken TRob had he slid and why did he pass on Harrison?  Obviously he did not take Best Player Available.... but if you ask, I'll bet you he'll tell you LIllard was the best player available.  

    Lillard and Meyers fit team needs... they were not the best players available, so don't go letting anyone tell you portland took the best players available.  Olshey lied.

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  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 06/29/2012 12:13 AM

    Wow, lied? Not "smokescreened" or "baited the media" or "tossed a coin" or even "made the wrong decision when BPA fell to him", but LIED? Take a breath there, my friend :P it's part of politics, which is all pre-draft is.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Reggie Lucenara
    Reggie Lucenara
    Posts: 17

    Posted 06/29/2012 2:11 AM

    I cant believe they pass on barnes! Hes the best player available. unbelievable
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  1. Reggie Lucenara
    Reggie Lucenara
    Posts: 17

    Posted 06/29/2012 2:16 AM

    We didnt draft the best player. In the end we just draft because of needs at 6. Lets just see how it will turn out because I really want harrison barnes good size and nba ready. good luck blazers
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  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 06/29/2012 4:35 AM

    Harrison Barnes: 
     Strengths:

    *Length
    *Unafraid to launch clutch shots
    *Pull-up jumper
    *Catch-and-shoot 3
    *Good rebounder
    *Solid defender
    *Strong work ethic

    Weaknesses:
    *Has to get bigger and stronger
    *Needs to continue to work on scoring off the bounce

    NBA projection:
    Those who know Barnes best think he has the tools and work ethic to be an NBA all-star. He’s a terrific scorer on the perimeter and at the rim (offensive rebounds) and needs only to work on his dribble-drive game, something he tried to force at times during his sophomore season.

    2011-12 Season:
    Barnes earned first-team All-ACC and second-team All-America (NABC) honors after leading the Tar Heels in scoring. He went through some dry spells from the perimeter, but he was also more than capable of taking — and making — big shots.

    Key statistics:
    17.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.1 apg, 2.2 tpg, 1.1 spg, 29.2 mpg, .440 FG, .358 3PT, .723 FT

    Cool statistic:
    Barnes is one of just six players in North Carolina history to average at least 15 points as a freshman and sophomore, joining Phil Ford, Antawn Jamison, Joseph Forte, Rashad McCants and Tyler Hansbrough).

    Reminds me of:
    Glen Rice

    What Insiders Say:
    North Carolina point guard Kendall Marshall
    "I think Harrison's becoming the player that everybody tried to make him out to be a year and a half ago. That's not to insult his game at all. Sometimes players just have to grow into that. I think he's done a great job of adjusting to the role. He is one of our main go-to guys."

    What Outsiders Say:
    Former Ohio (now Illinois) coach John Groce
    “Obviously Barnes is a terrific player and he made some big plays for their team late in regulation and in the overtime. We just tried to battle him and compete, to be honest with you. We had some of our better defenders on him as well. Offutt's a terrific defender, Johnson's a great defender, and Hall has gotten better and is 6-6 and has some size. But he's a tough cover because he can score such a variety of ways.”

    Creighton coach Greg McDermott
    “Harrison's responsible for a lot of [son] Doug's development because Doug saw in Harrison a guy with an unbelievable work ethic. And when other high school aged students were going to movies and going to football games and going to the prom, Harrison was working out. And I really believe that Doug saw in Harrison a guy that he wanted to emulate and saw the improvement and said, you know what, I think that I now know what it takes. He could listen to his dad and his high school coach, but when you see it in Harrison, the improvement he made each year of high school because of his work ethic, it was certainly impactful for Doug.”

    -- Profile by Chris Dortch, editor of the Blue Ribbon College Basketball Yearbook. Follow him @cdortch.


    Damian Lillard:
     Strengths:

    *Unselfish/knows how to get his teammates involved
    *Good 3-point shooter
    *Good penetrator and strong enough to absorb contact in the lane
    *Excellent free-throw shooter
    *Good rebounder
    *Diligent at getting better

    Weaknesses:
    *Needs to tighten up his handle
    *Wasn’t able to consistently perform against upper Division I talent

    NBA projection:
    In a draft that’s short on point guards, Lillard’s status has steadily risen to the point where he’s projected as a lottery pick. He’s a scorer, but he’s smart enough to know that if he keeps his teammates involved, his scoring opportunities will still be there. He’s got all the requisite point guard stills, and the best thing about him is that he’s never satisfied with his game. During a medical redshirt season in 2010-11 he watched every tape from his 71 career games played in an effort to learn his weaknesses and how he could improve and also met his goal of bench-pressing 300 pounds.

    2011-12 Season:
    Lillard led the nation in scoring much of the season before finishing second to Oakland’s Reggie Hamilton. He ranked in the top 20 in the nation in made 3-pointers per game, 3-point field-goal percentage and free-throw percentage. Lillard was the Big Sky Conference MVP after leading his team to a 25-7 overall record, 14-2 in the league, which was good enough to win the regular-season title. Lillard set a Weber State single-season record with 784 points, another record for made 3-pointers (94) and tied the school record for most free-throws made (228).

    Key statistics:
    24.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.3 tpg, 1.5 spg, 34.5 mpg, .467 FG, .409 3PT, .887 FT

    Cool statistic:
    Finished as Weber State’s career leader in made 3-point goals (246) and made free throws (520).

    Reminds me of:
    Norris Cole

    What Insiders Say:
    Weber State coach Randy Rahe
    “He’s got a great feel for when our team needs him to be aggressive, a great feel for when others need to be involved. If they give him something he takes it, if not, he goes to the next guy. … He’s the kind of kid that if he’s not doing something to get better on a daily basis, he struggles with that. He’s such a focused kid on how do I improve, how do I get better.”

    What Outsiders Say:
    San Jose State coach George Nessman
    "Lillard is a great player for his team. We did a great job on him until the last 10 minutes of the game [Lillard scored 14 second-half points and 17 in two overtimes]. I don't know if we'll face a scorer that good the rest of the season."

    Cal coach Mike Montgomery:
    “Damian Lillard is a really good player and a really good athlete.”

    BYU coach Dave Rose:
    (Comparing Lillard to Wisconsin point guard Jordan Taylor)
    "I think they're similar in their ability to make some late shot-clock scores and to create for themselves and for their team.”

    -- Profile by Chris Dortch, editor of the Blue Ribbon College Basketball Yearbook. Follow him @cdortch.


    In only 6 more minutes per game, Lillard averaged 7.4 more ppg, almost identical rebounds per game (remember we're comparing a forward and a PG), .4 more steals and shot a higher percentage in every category. The only knock on the kid is that he was loyal to a small school and played in a lower league. Then he lit it up at the combine and became the top PG prospect in the draft.

    You're telling me Harrison Barnes was the clear 100% obvious best player available? It may have been closer than Olshey thought, but I think Barnes' game has "mediocre NBA player" written all over it.
    I am a fan of
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 06/29/2012 7:38 AM

    I too am of the belief that Portland selected the best player available at 6.  Lillard is the real deal.  Skillset, athleticism,mental and physical toughness, work ethic and character.  He, as much as anyone else in the draft this year, has the potential of being very special.  Yes, you can quote that.  I'll be the first to purchase his jersey...
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. jamsmashers
    jamsmashers
    Posts: 297

    Posted 06/29/2012 9:36 AM

    I still do not agree. Barnes was suppose to be the best college player after he came out of HS. He did not live up to expectations. If he gets to his absolute best I can imagine him being like Reggie Miller and his bottom is probably more like Webster/James Jones. He is a safer pick because he went to a big college.

    Lillard was shunned out of HS. No big college offered him a scholarship for a reason. He went to a smaller college and dominated against worse competition. Can he keep it up in the NBA? We have to wait for sure. His top is Billups and his bottom is Mo Williams.

    Why not both? Barnes off the bench for Batum. Trade Matthews for 7 pick and take Lillard.  Lamb was available at 11. We just retooled our team in a great Direction. Imagine what this team could potentially look like after FA.

    Lillard, Billups, Smith
    Lamb, Williams
    Batum, Barnes, Babbit
    LA, Hickson
    Mcgee, Azik, Priz

    Just look how well this team flows. Coach such as Brooks works....... Why did we not persue barnes? then Lamb? you tell me. if you think of it this way you will realize..... it was stupid not taking just lillard, and we should have taken barnes as well
    I am a fan of
  1. jamsmashers
    jamsmashers
    Posts: 297

    Posted 06/29/2012 9:36 AM

    I still do not agree. Barnes was suppose to be the best college player after he came out of HS. He did not live up to expectations. If he gets to his absolute best I can imagine him being like Reggie Miller and his bottom is probably more like Webster/James Jones. He is a safer pick because he went to a big college.

    Lillard was shunned out of HS. No big college offered him a scholarship for a reason. He went to a smaller college and dominated against worse competition. Can he keep it up in the NBA? We have to wait for sure. His top is Billups and his bottom is Mo Williams.

    Why not both? Barnes off the bench for Batum. Trade Matthews for 7 pick and take Lillard.  Lamb was available at 11. We just retooled our team in a great Direction. Imagine what this team could potentially look like after FA.

    Lillard, Billups, Smith
    Lamb, Williams
    Batum, Barnes, Babbit
    LA, Hickson
    Mcgee, Azik, Priz

    Just look how well this team flows. Coach such as Brooks works....... Why did we not persue barnes? then Lamb? you tell me. if you think of it this way you will realize..... it was stupid not taking just lillard, and we should have taken barnes as well
    I am a fan of
  1. FoulWeatherFan
    FoulWeatherFan
    Posts: 126

    Posted 06/29/2012 2:55 PM

    No way we would sign McGee or Billups. Denver isn't letting McGee go anywhere, and Billups want to play for a contender. I think we did great, potentially (potential is all the draft really offers). Now if we can add a swingman like OJ Mayo, Ray Allen, or Landry Fields. Then get a quality big man like Spencer Hawes or Brandon Bass(All except Mayo are unrestricted free agents). If we can retain Batum and Hickson while adding Freeland and Claver. That is a full and potentially deep roster 
    I am a fan of close games.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 06/30/2012 1:38 AM

    @jamsmashers, don't you see the message in what you said? Barnes has already failed to live up to expectations once. Lillard has only gotten better with time. How does that make Barnes the better pick?

    And we can't afford Batum, Billups, Hickson, McGee, and Azik. Paul Allen has the cash to do it, but the salary cap and exceptions will not be enough to make all those deals. Pick 3 of those 5 to be Blazers, and now you're back in reality.

    The other important point is that, if we sign Nic, Barnes is more of a trade piece than a rotation player. We probably would've had to package Barnes with another one of our few players on contract to deal for--that's right--a PG. And Lillard could STILL be better than whoever we got through that trade. I'm happy to see a rookie worthy of some real minutes for once. At least Portland basketball will be exciting with Lillard, because no matter what the outcome of the draft was, we're not making the 2013 playoffs.
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  1. FoulWeatherFan
    FoulWeatherFan
    Posts: 126

    Posted 06/30/2012 1:06 PM

    Posted By D_pickett on 06/30/2012 1:38 AM
    @jamsmashers, don't you see the message in what you said? Barnes has already failed to live up to expectations once. Lillard has only gotten better with time. How does that make Barnes the better pick?

    And we can't afford Batum, Billups, Hickson, McGee, and Azik. Paul Allen has the cash to do it, but the salary cap and exceptions will not be enough to make all those deals. Pick 3 of those 5 to be Blazers, and now you're back in reality.

    The other important point is that, if we sign Nic, Barnes is more of a trade piece than a rotation player. We probably would've had to package Barnes with another one of our few players on contract to deal for--that's right--a PG. And Lillard could STILL be better than whoever we got through that trade. I'm happy to see a rookie worthy of some real minutes for once. At least Portland basketball will be exciting with Lillard, because no matter what the outcome of the draft was, we're not making the 2013 playoffs.

    I disagree, I think we could definitely make the playoffs. We may have some young pieces but we also have a solid core of vets. Aldridge, Batum, Matthews, Hickson, Pryzbilla, and whatever FA we bring in. I think we are going to have a lot better team than people expect. They may not gel at first but give it time. I really like what Olshey is saying about getting guys in their mid-20's. A team needs to learn how to play together for a few years before they really know each other, and before we know what we have. 
    I am a fan of close games.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 06/30/2012 5:10 PM

    Let me phrase it this way. I don't want to expect the Blazers to make the playoffs. That way, when they do, I will be pleasantly surprised.

    We all expected Portland to be a 4 or 5 seed in the West last season. It was a MAJOR disappointment by the end of the year. If we call a spade a spade and realize Portland is rebuilding, we shouldn't get high hopes that they'll be a playoff team for another couple seasons.
    I am a fan of
  1. benh7777
    benh7777
    Posts: 203

    Posted 06/30/2012 9:40 PM

    I expect them to make the playoffs. There is no reason whatsoever with the cap room and picks they have this year that Portland would not be able to put enough pieces together to be a playoff team. Title contender? No, but enough to keep the fans excited and give them a playoff team.

    Back to the subject, will Barnes just be the next star on a long list that Portland passed on to fill a need instead? I'm afraid so, but we shall see.
    I am a fan of Effort
  1. mbmurr1
    mbmurr1
    Posts: 530

    Posted 07/01/2012 12:55 AM

    If we took Barnes at #6 would we sign and trade Batum?      If Robinson dropped then what..... Trade LA to N.O. for #1 and #10, and their #1 in 2013, or to Washington for #3, their #1 in 2013 and? What if, What if, What if???  I say be happy with what we have and hope the tide has turned and all the other teams in the league have the injury problems we have dealt with over the last several years. 
    I am a fan of
  1. mbmurr1
    mbmurr1
    Posts: 530

    Posted 07/01/2012 1:05 AM

    I would like us to go deep in the playoffs this season but if we have a bad season I will still be a Blazers fan. I hope we sign Illasova, Hickson, Batum, Thabeet, Przybilla, Billups. Leave Freeland and Clavier overseas for one more year.
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