The PG Position
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  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 03/25/2012 1:34 PM

    WARNING: This is not another "get rid of Felton" thread, so, if that's what you are looking for, move on.

    I'm considering the NBA as a whole, and I've had a thought about the seemingly widespread philosophy that the key to a successful team is to build around a talented PG. I certainly understand this concept; if you think about the PG as a quarterback, how many Superbowl champions had a sub-par QB?

    It is also thought that this is more or less the "era of the PG". I can understand where that comes from when I watch Chicago, OKC, Boston, and LAC play. However, the modern (particularly younger) PGs are not the kind of people to build an entire team around. I named four teams with stellar young PGs who are playoff teams. Now I'm going to name off a few more; try to figure out what they have in common: Cleveland, Charlotte, Washington, New Jersey, Sacramento, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Golden State.

    My point is that the modern isolation/scoring PG as a cornerstone seems to produce more failures as it does successes (and considering the results of last years season we must loosely define success to call it that).

    I was going to supply the top 16 teams (i.e., playoff picture) and name their cornerstone type. I'll only do the top 12, since the last 4 playoff spots are still relatively open.

    CHI -- Dynamic PG
    MIA -- Point Forward and slashing Guard
    ORL -- Strong/scoring Center
    PHI -- Quick/scoring backcourt
    IND -- Dynamic wings and team play
    ATL -- Talented scoring wings

    OKC -- Quick PG and swingman SF
    SA   -- Scoring backcourt and diverse big man
    LAL -- Isolation 2-Guard and enormous frontcourt
    LAC -- Distributing/scoring PG and high-flying bigman
    DAL -- Euro Forward/Bigman
    MEM-- Scoring 2-Guard and face-up/hustle Forward

    Basically, I'm not seeing a formula to a successful team. But, with all that being said, what kind of team would you like to see the Blazers build? Just build around LaMarcus and nothing else? Look for a scoring or distributing PG? Get a scoring center on the team?
    I am a fan of
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 03/25/2012 4:10 PM

    Jerryd Bayless will be a free agent. Hey, I'm just saying, we liked him here, even though Cho didn't.
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 03/25/2012 9:00 PM

    Elliot Williams would really need to polish his ballhandling skills for me to say we should give him a try at the point.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 03/26/2012 1:53 PM

    I think you overlooked a few key aspects in your analysis. 
    Chicago- dynamic pg and stifling team defense
    Miami- quality big man, 2 amazing ball handlers, unstoppable penetration, aggressive defense
    Orlando- NBA Defensive Player of the year, Great three point shooting
    Philadelphia- relentless pace, amazing team defense, deep
    Indiana- balanced attack, great defense, and excellent perimeter shooting
    Atlanta- Good help defense, quality depth, and Josh Smith

    OKC- Three scorers and great team defense
    SA- Great Bigman, quality depth, good PG, great defense
    Lakers- good defense, Kobe, huge front court
    Clips- Elite PG, good depth before injuries, and explosive big man
    Dallas- Amazing depth, Unstoppable big man, underrated team d, savvy veteran pg
    Memphis- 2 all star bigs, good scoring guard, great defense

    So if you look at the list the one thing that stands out is good defense. With the exception of Atlanta, the Clips, and maybe Dallas all the elite NBA teams have great defenses. But the five teams considered to have a legit title shot have something else a dynamic scorer who can get his own shot. Chicago has Rose, Miami has Wade and Lebron, OKC has Westbrook and Durant, SA has Parker and Ginobli, and the Lakers have Kobe. 

    The problem with Portland is we do not have either of those Major components. LA is great but cannot generate offense on his own and our help defense has been horrible all year, especially against pick and roll. 

    This team needs a defensive identity first and foremost if we are going to compete for a title ever. We also need someone who can get their own shot. D. Williams is that guy but the odds of us getting him this off-season are very slim. Portland needs a lot of help to reach that next level and I think it will start in the draft. 
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 03/26/2012 2:48 PM

    Deron Williams and LMA are close friends and have said that one day they want to play together.  I think if the Blazers get a top level coach (shouldn't be a problem there), a real GM, and make some intelligent moves during the draft, why would Deron Williams NOT want to come here?  

    Deron Williams
    Matthews
    Andre Drummond
    LMA
    Batum

    That's a lineup with 2 all-stars and a great mix of veteran experience and youth.  
    I am a fan of winning
  1. mbmurr1
    mbmurr1
    Posts: 530

    Posted 03/26/2012 2:50 PM

    We need to get high picks and do our homework to pick the right 2-4 guys in the draft. I agree with going after J. Bayless in the off season.
    I am a fan of
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 03/26/2012 3:40 PM

    Screw Bayless we do not need old rehashes back in Portland unless that guy is Gerald Wallace and he is not making 10 mil a season. 

    Portland has a great chance to make some serious strides this off-season. Deron is obviously a major target and would provide an instant upgrade but there is a lot of quality depth available for a good price. 

    Portlands top FA targets should be:
    Deron Williams- offer him Max salary and a chance pick his head coach and see if that is enough. 
    Ian Mahinmi - A 25 Year Old center who is a solid defender and good rebounder. Would avg a double double with enough minutes. He is likely available for around 3 mil a year. 
    Ersan Ilyasova- Been unstoppable lately as shown by his 29 Point 25 Reb night against New Jersey he would provide great front court depth and would allow LA to play the 5 if needed. Probably the most complete big available but will likely be cheaper than Lopez, Anderson, Hibbert. 
    Grant Hill- He is getting older but has shown to be a great defender and a capable scorer he will also be cheap.
    George Hill- he will be tough to sign away from Indiana but he is the type of hard working player we need to target
    Kurt Hinrich- will take a huge pay cut this off-season but is still an elite defender and will offer some depth to Portland he becomes even more valuable if we have to sign someone like Kidd or Nash. 
    Deshawn Stevenson- is a great defender and will provide quality effort minutes off the bench for cheap. 

    We should have a lot of money available this off-season but we need to be smart with our money. Outbidding people for the likes of Brook Lopez, Aaron Brooks, or Ryan Anderson is not going to get us deep into the playoffs. Deron will cost 18.5 if we sign him, which would not leave us much to fill out the roster around him so we need to spend wisely.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Tattoo You
    Tattoo You
    Posts: 7

    Posted 03/26/2012 3:50 PM

    Damn thats some significant NBA IQ right there
    I am a fan of All weather fans
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 03/26/2012 4:08 PM

    Posted By Tattoo You on 03/26/2012 3:50 PM
    Damn thats some significant NBA IQ right there

    No doubt, and agree completely.  Joel has worked out in the rebuild we're in here but he's not a long term solution.  Bringing Patty Mills, Bayless, etc. back is such a bad idea.  We really need to be unemotional here and learn to move on from ex Blazers.  

    That is unless it's Crash and he's willing to take a paycut.  And I wouldn't even want him to do that.
    I am a fan of winning
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 03/26/2012 5:01 PM

    Thanks for the support fellas. 
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. postedbailblazers
    postedbailblazers
    Posts: 165

    Posted 03/26/2012 7:03 PM

    I am of the belief that we have greater need at C, SG and SF.  We could have our PG of the future already.  Flynn, Smith, and Felton need a little more time but there is possibly enough talent there to be what we need it to be.  

    Wesley on the other hand has proved to be another inconsistent performer in our ranks.  He's had plenty of time and he doesn't look like he's gonna get there.  Would be a great back up but I have no faith in his future as our starting SG.  I don't believe we will see Crawford back next season.  As we do have the luxury of a guy like Batum who could go SF or SG, I say we take the best available at either spot in the draft with our first pick...unless there is a killer talent left at C.  We see what we have after the draft and then scour the FA market for whatever we can that still seems to be a need.
    I am a fan of rhubarb pie.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 03/27/2012 11:01 AM

    Felton is by far the best PG out of those you mentioned but he is not a pick and roll PG. Therefore, he does not fit in well with LA.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. freddead
    freddead
    Posts: 321

    Posted 03/27/2012 2:27 PM

    by the looks of it were only gunna have one pick NJ is tanking terribly
    I am a fan of
  1. uprised
    uprised
    Posts: 136

    Posted 03/27/2012 3:47 PM

    Batum is just as mediocre at SG as he is at F.  That said, we still need to try and get Drummond or Meyers Leonard.  We are not going to get a center through FA in any scenario.
    I am a fan of winning
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 03/27/2012 6:21 PM

    We do need a quality big but I do like Drummond's upside more.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
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