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  1. Richard Ackerman
    Richard Ackerman
    Posts: 34

    Posted 06/19/2009 1:29 PM

    So there's been a bunch of talk about us wanting to bring Hedo Turkoglu here to Portland. Well there was interesting article yesterday comparing Hedo to other players. http://www.orlandomagicdaily.com/?p=433&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 The part I find most intriguing is "But to other teams, is Turkoglu really worth close to eight figures? John Hollinger’s Player Efficiency Rating isn’t perfect, but it’s probably the best method we have of comparing players. Turkoglu’s PER this season was less than Travis Outlaw, Marvin Williams, Grant Hill, Rudy Gay, Anthony Randolph and Richard Jefferson. And PER often punishes player who are shut-down defenders — something Turkoglu is not." Now I'm one of the people who hate on Travis from time to time, but I'm a big believer in the PER stat, and the fact Travis' is higher than Turkoglu's almost frightens me to trade for Turkoglu. I mean seriously, don't we need defense from the 3 spot. They even point out that Hedo is not much of a defender. What do you guys think? Do we need a guy who commands the ball as often as BROY but isn't as efficient as Travis Outlaw? I vote no.
    I am a fan of this team. Here's to hoping for a healthy season!!!
  1. DimeTime
    Posts: 8

    Posted 06/19/2009 3:42 PM

    PER is a great tool. No doubt. But look at Catfish's career averages versus Turk:
    TO: 9.6 Pts 3.4 Rbd 0.8 Ast (6 seasons)
    HT: 12.3 Pts 4.2 Rbd 2.7 Ast (9 seasons)
    This isn't to say that I prefer Turk to TO, but PER isn't the only stat to look at. Turk seems to produce consistently year after year.

    One thing that doesn't come up often in the Trade Travis discussions is that many Blazers consider TO their best Blazer buddy. What happens to team chemistry if he gets traded?

    I am a fan of shaved heads on guys who don't need to shave heads
  1. RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 06/19/2009 6:09 PM

    I think everyone is thinking the same thing, they just aren't saying out loud. I think anytime you hear "trade up to get Hansbrough," or "trade for Turiaf," or "trade for (insert back up PF here)" everyone knows what that cost would be and they just don't want to say it out loud because he is the Blazer Buddy. I think it is a matter of saying without SAYING, if you know what I mean.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 06/19/2009 10:25 PM

    As for Hedo, my vote is still NO. I think he had a great season, he plays well against Portland, but overal he doesn't fit the needs of the Blazers. Yes, Portland needs to score more, but those need to come from defensive stops being converted into fast-break points. Neither of those are his specialty so he isn't the guy the Blazers should want, especially not for the money he is going to be asking for. I can't wait, down to the last days before the day of big moves for the Blazers. Pretty excited to see what happens and who is on our Summer League Roster.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. SithLord13
    Posts: 56

    Posted 06/19/2009 11:58 PM

    PER is a nice tool but like most numeric values it's only a very small portion. Magic had Nelson and Alston on the field for the finals and all they did was to bring the ball to offense and give it to Hedo to make something happen. He knows the game better than any player on our roster and he's a key to success in NBA. He almost beat Lakers in Sacramento. Moved to Spurs and started in front of Ginobili and played as one of the 2 guards. Then went to Magic and played as the leader of the team in playoffs with the best defender and Lewis looking up to him on the court. I think he's the leader we need. He'll provide the consistent shooting we are lacking as well as playoff experience. He's a player that most defenders have trouble stopping even though he's not very fast or athletic. But being that tall and agile makes him physically better than most competition. He won't be cheap to bring in but as he said he'll have to think about his family's future, therefore willing to leave for a good offer. I think we have to take the leap and get him. He'll help bring in Kidd as well. Both players will lead us to the west finals
    I am a fan of the Rip City, where amazing will happen in 2012
  1. RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 06/20/2009 12:40 AM

    Even so, he is a defensive liability, and Kidd, although great at one time, defensively can't keep up with the faster PG's in the league. You are wanting to add two defensive liablilities to the starting lineup which already has trouble on defense? That goes against the bigger issue that Portland has which is Defense. Your Offensive stability will come from Martel being in that starting lineup. You will see Blake (or whoever is starting at PG) be more consistant, Roy will have an easier time, Aldrige will have an easier time, Oden is looking to be MUCH better this year, I think to go out and make all those wholesale changes would actually be a detriment to the team. Martel might not have the veteran savvy that Hedo has, but he is a better defender and can shoot lights out from beyond the arc. He is hungry and wants to prove a point this year. Not to mention he doesn't have enough years left in him to fit the Blazer mold of younger talent for longterm winning. I am not saying the Blazers want another rookie necessarily, but definitely a talented player in their first 5 seasons in the NBA. I think they have the talent available already on the team, I think a minor change at the back-up 4 and maybe a true starting PG would help and I think both are doable this summer, but they need to fit the chemistry and binging on Hedo would disrupt that by shoving Martel to the bench and push Batum back even further. It would not be a good idea, he doesn't fit into the overall picture and certainly not if you are going after Kidd as well.

    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 06/20/2009 1:12 AM

    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. SithLord13
    Posts: 56

    Posted 06/20/2009 12:53 PM

    Hedo isn't really bad against the SF but he's not good enough when playing against the SG. If Roy can step up against the SG, Hedo will turn into a big addition. I would consider using him as the 6th man to start the game and see what happens in the 4th quarter, which is the time he seems to shine. If Batum can keep up the current pace he should be the defender to start the game but we need some leadership in the late game which both Kidd and Hedo can bring in. I'm still not sold on Martell's situation and we depend on Roy too much. We need to add some scoring options. I would prefer to get other names but the FA isn't really deep enough. If he doesn't work our for us Hedo can still be a very good trade bait this year. It's obvious that we don't have many names to give up so why not add some
    I am a fan of the Rip City, where amazing will happen in 2012
  1. RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 06/20/2009 1:14 PM

    Hedo won't go anywhere he won't be guaranteed to start. That's the bottom line. He doesn't subscribe to the Blazer philisophy on lineups. He has an ego and like KP said, somebody is going to end up OVER paying in order to get him. That means that 10mil is TOO much. Not worth it. His ego would end up being a distraction.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. SithLord13
    Posts: 56

    Posted 06/20/2009 1:49 PM

    I'm not sure about his ego. He has been a backup in Sacramento and didn't really cause any problems. Have been playing in Orlando for years without a competitive team and wasn't a cancer there either. The price is an important factor. He's likely to be the highest paid player on our roster if we get him but there should be a limit. I wouldn't want KP to get into any bidding war for him and try to set a max limit before getting into the process. I think we could utilize a single player in the paint system to get him the starting role if needed and have some sense of depth inside the paint. With the current lineup we are likely to move some player to the bench if we want to grab any quality players (LMA, Webster, Batum) and none will like it but this is a professional process.
    I am a fan of the Rip City, where amazing will happen in 2012
  1. RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 06/20/2009 4:00 PM

    I disagree. I think Batum understands that he is limited offensively and has to beet Martel out in order to start again this year. He will go to the bench. As far as Hedo's time in Sacramento, he hadn't arrived yet. He is coming off a career year, you think he will be willing to go to the bench? Nuhuh. Not going to happen. I wouldn't say he would be a "cancer," but he would definitely be unhappy and a distraction. Maybe I'm blind, but given what Portland has as far as talent, opportunity, PT, chemistry, and salary I don't think there is an argument one could make right now that truly makes sense for Hedo to come to Portland. Unfortunately, that is what it has come down to for me. I have officially locked him out as a fit for the Blazers until he is signed and proves otherwise, which I don't think will happen. This offseason he has talked his way out of a Championship in my mind.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
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