Not too many people here talking about Chauncey ...
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  1. formalityjoey
    formalityjoey
    Posts: 38

    Posted 08/28/2010 7:27 AM

    ... and i think it's kinda funny.

    I remember everyone drooling over chris paul about a month ago. And rightfully so. He was supposed to be the ''PGOTF'' that everyone around here has been looking for, for some time.

    The facts:

    The blazer fans (and probably the front office) want a pg upgrade.
    Andre has some weaknesses; mostly in the outside shooting department
    Chris Paul > Andre.
    Billups > Andre.
    Billups is going to be 34. Getting closer to the later part of his career.
    Chris Paul just turned 25. Is in his prime.
    Billups has won a championship on a defensive minded Detroit Pistons team
    Billups and Paul are both great leaders on the floor and in the locker room ( i assume)
    Chris Paul's Assists numbers are higher.
    Chris Paul is a basketball prodigy
    Billups has veteran savvy, has been known to hit clutch shots, and knows what it takes to win a championship.
    Chris Paul would cost us an arm and a leg to obtain via trade
    Billups will cost us something, but not as much as CP3, considering his age
    Billups will want to go to a championship contending team (possibly a young team) so he can get more rings.
    It sounds like the Nuggets are about to blow it all up.

    What i'm trying to get at is: billups as PGOTF? maybe not bc he's older. But PGOTP? I think it's a great fit. He seems like the best PG to go after at this particular moment in time. It just seems more realistic than getting CP3 (although even getting Billups could be a stretch). If i'm rich Cho, i'm thinking about it, and i'm scheming.

    Chauncey, Rip, Prince, Sheed, Ben Wallace is similar to ...

    Chauncey, roy, batum, LMA, G.O. <<< but these guys are better =)
    I am a fan of the future NBA CHAMPIONS ...
  1. RipCityVice
    RipCityVice
    Posts: 126

    Posted 08/28/2010 9:47 AM

    Maybe. C-Bill is making just over 13 mil this season.
    It may be worth shooting for, but is Denver gonna let all the good players go? They know they're losing Anthony, but it's not gonna be til after this season. Hence Billups will stay this season, barring a dramatic situation.
    Good idea? Yes. Gonna happen? Very very unlikely. He would be a great addition to the team in many ways, and I know we have some pieces to offer, but Denver's not gonna trade Billups any more than New Orleans is gonna trade Chris Paul right now.
    I am a fan of Bleeding Blazer Red Every Day
  1. freddead
    freddead
    Posts: 321

    Posted 08/28/2010 11:26 AM

    ive always liked billups i think hed be a great fit for us i like andre but i dont think are system matches his style
    I am a fan of
  1. blazersforlife234
    blazersforlife234
    Posts: 347

    Posted 08/28/2010 12:59 PM

    I've been saying we should make a run at him!!! thank you.
    I am a fan of winning.
  1. I''m OUT!
    I''m OUT!
    Posts: 1059

    Posted 08/28/2010 10:59 PM

    Chauncey is only an improvement with his outside shooting and I think Andre is still a better passer. They are both the same age basically and Chauncey just said he doesn't even want to leave the Nuggets. Plus Andre already has a full year with us and building chemistry all over again is a concern, especially since Chauncey is not young and he might bail even earlier since he just stated he wants to stay in Denver. I think it is a waste because we barely get better which could be nullified by everyone getting used to another pg AGAIN and then we've wasted another year and lost players to get CB when we will need to do something either way in a couple years any way since he and Dre are the same age. So unless it is a STEAL of a deal and we know he wants to be here (who knows maybe he and Mcmillan are already building a good relationship in Turkey) , I think keep our resources until there is a long term solution with someone who is clearly a great fit for our team.

    If only we could have went for Chauncey when the Nuggets first did. Actually I remember thinking that when they got him because we still had Blake and I was wondering why we weren't going after someone like him already, he would have been great for us then with his playoff experience.
    I am a fan of comcast and the blazers making deals that keep screwing us over!! woot!
  1. formalityjoey
    formalityjoey
    Posts: 38

    Posted 08/29/2010 12:50 AM

    To be completely honest, when all the CP3 threads were a-blaze, i was one of the blazer fans thinking in my head: "as good as CP3 is, Andre did an awesome job last year, especially considering the injury circumstances. Why don't we just keep the team as is and see how they do?"

    I think i tend to pull for Andre bc i feel like he is underrated/under-appreciated around the league. And he's really soft-spoken, stays out of the media and stays out of trouble (for the most part.) Not like all these new age basketball players.

    I think that from a statistical stand point, it looks like CB is only a small improvement over Andre. (CB scores 5 more ppg.) But from a schematic stand point i think he's a big improvement. I even think that psychologically the team will improve. Imagine you're Broy and you receive a pass with 5 seconds left on the shot clock; Andre's man comes over to double you; it MUST SUCK to know that if you kick it to andre with 1 second left, there's a small chance his 3 pointer goes in. Insert CB into that same situation, and you have confidence (as BRoy) to kick it out to him.

    As far as getting used to CB; i think it's easy. These guys are professional basketball players. If anything Andre is the hardest type of player to adjust to due to the fact that he can't consistently hit an outside jumper. When you know a guy can't shoot, you have to adjust you're gameplay bc of that guy. But when a guy CAN shoot, Penetrate and kick. Pick and Roll. Pick and Pop. Simple basketball concepts that are all effective AS LONG AS the players involved can shoot, penetrate, and pass.

    You might argue, "well, Blake could shoot". But i never saw Blake win a championship. I never saw Blake as an all star. And i've never seen Blake on Team USA. (Not to mention Andre). Chauncey Billups has IT. The qualities of a winner and a leader. Leadership qualities that not even BRoy has, and may NEVER have. The intangibles to get this team over the hump and a jumper to go with it.

    PGOTF? Where are we going to get that from? Not from the draft. From trades? not without giving up the whole farm (which would set us back 2-3 years).

    Again, i love me some Andre Miller. I expect the blazers to go deep into the playoffs with him this year.  But somehow, bc andre has his flaws, i can picture the blazers winning a championship in 2010-11 with CB but i can't picture it happening with Andre. And remember, if there ever was a year to win a title, this is the year. The three kings in Miami will only get better and better for the next 5 years.
    I am a fan of the future NBA CHAMPIONS ...
  1. I''m OUT!
    I''m OUT!
    Posts: 1059

    Posted 08/29/2010 3:27 AM

    Posted By formalityjoey on 08/29/2010 12:50 AM
    To be completely honest, when all the CP3 threads were a-blaze, i was one of the blazer fans thinking in my head: "as good as CP3 is, Andre did an awesome job last year, especially considering the injury circumstances. Why don't we just keep the team as is and see how they do?"

    I think i tend to pull for Andre bc i feel like he is underrated/under-appreciated around the league. And he's really soft-spoken, stays out of the media and stays out of trouble (for the most part.) Not like all these new age basketball players.

    I think that from a statistical stand point, it looks like CB is only a small improvement over Andre. (CB scores 5 more ppg.) But from a schematic stand point i think he's a big improvement. I even think that psychologically the team will improve. Imagine you're Broy and you receive a pass with 5 seconds left on the shot clock; Andre's man comes over to double you; it MUST SUCK to know that if you kick it to andre with 1 second left, there's a small chance his 3 pointer goes in. Insert CB into that same situation, and you have confidence (as BRoy) to kick it out to him.

    As far as getting used to CB; i think it's easy. These guys are professional basketball players. If anything Andre is the hardest type of player to adjust to due to the fact that he can't consistently hit an outside jumper. When you know a guy can't shoot, you have to adjust you're gameplay bc of that guy. But when a guy CAN shoot, Penetrate and kick. Pick and Roll. Pick and Pop. Simple basketball concepts that are all effective AS LONG AS the players involved can shoot, penetrate, and pass.

    You might argue, "well, Blake could shoot". But i never saw Blake win a championship. I never saw Blake as an all star. And i've never seen Blake on Team USA. (Not to mention Andre). Chauncey Billups has IT. The qualities of a winner and a leader. Leadership qualities that not even BRoy has, and may NEVER have. The intangibles to get this team over the hump and a jumper to go with it.

    PGOTF? Where are we going to get that from? Not from the draft. From trades? not without giving up the whole farm (which would set us back 2-3 years).

    Again, i love me some Andre Miller. I expect the blazers to go deep into the playoffs with him this year.  But somehow, bc andre has his flaws, i can picture the blazers winning a championship in 2010-11 with CB but i can't picture it happening with Andre. And remember, if there ever was a year to win a title, this is the year. The three kings in Miami will only get better and better for the next 5 years.
    First you must be a new basketball fan or you don't pay attention very well. Andre was on the USA Team at the 1998 Goodwill Games and again on the USA Team at the 2002 World Championships. Second I would NEVER EVER argue any thing that would suggest Blake as being better than either Chauncey or Miller. And third our whole team needs to quit passing the ball with one second left on the shot clock! No one gets a good shot in that little time. That was part of the problem we had with Blake. Andre helped solve that by running our offense better from the get go, and if you pass it to him with enough time he will drive in and either score or find an open man, another simple basketball concept. And fourth, you are crazy if you wanted us to hold off on CP3 but go ahead and pull the trigger with Chauncey! That makes no sense. You are also crazy if you can see us win the Championship just because of Chauncey this year. We need more than just a better shooter at pg. Lamarcus needs to take a big step towards being dominant and just better all around, not to mention Greg, Batum and Bayless. In fact if we had those things I think that would take us much further than just getting a 3 point shooter at pg, meaning I think theoretically if we were to win, it could be with either Chauncey or Andre because other players are playing to their potential. I think for us to win big we need to develop Greg on the inside and Lamarcus needs to go in there as well and mix up his game. And Batum needs to shoot more than last year!

    I do agree though that Andre is unappreciated here, and he is not seen for his strengths, but for his weakness. I am still amazed though that he has only missed a measly THREE games in his WHOLE NBA CAREER!!! That is pretty amazing. I also think Andre would be better for Greg and Batum than Chauncey, but if we did end up getting Chauncey, I definitely wouldn't be upset if it was a good deal and didn't have to give up any of our core guys (Roy, Oden, Batum, Lamarcus, etc)
    I am a fan of comcast and the blazers making deals that keep screwing us over!! woot!
  1. formalityjoey
    formalityjoey
    Posts: 38

    Posted 08/29/2010 4:42 AM

    when i said "you might argue 'blake could shoot.'", i didn't actually mean you TomL. I should have put, "one might argue." I guess that argument was directed toward those fans that liked the offense better when blake was running it compared to Andre. Basically, to all the Andre haters. i am not an Andre hater even though it may seem to be that way since i'm pulling so hard for the chauncey move. But i am a fan of the blazers making any moves necessary to make the team better. I'm sure the move won't even come CLOSE to ever happening, and with that, i would love to see andre running the point for the blazers this year.

    There was a misinterpretation on the CP3 section. Of course i wanted CP3 here. It's not like i was saying billups is better than cp3. It's just that CP3 is so good that i'm pretty sure that in order to get him, we would have to give up some key pieces. With chauncey, who is not AS in demand as cp3, we wouldn't have to give up as much. So chauncey better than cp3?? No way. But i think it's a move that makes more sense in regard to keeping the nucleus in tact.

    As far as Andre on Team USA in the past, i shoulda looked that up. I just assumed from what my memory could remember. So no, i'm not new to basketball. I just "don't pay attention very well" apparently. I must admit i haven't followed Andre's career THAT closely that i know that much about him. But maybe the reference that i was trying to bring forward, is that chauncey was invited to play with the current USA Bball team. And i'm pretty sure Andre Miller was not. They have to have invited Chauncey for a good reason right?? I would assume it's the fact that he's a glue kind of guy. The kind of guy that can unify a group of guys even if they're playing together for the first time.

    But no i dont think i'm crazy for thinking that the blazers could win a championship with chauncey. I think that highly of his skill set. I definitely agree with you that guys like Batum, LMA, and Greg need to step their game up. But i like to think about the lakers of last season as a measuring stick. Ron Artest had a hard time figuring out his place on the team the whole season. His play was far from perfect. Fisher has definitely lost a step (or two, or three steps). Bynum can be a beast on some days but at the same time, he's got things to work on to be consistent. Pau and Kobe did their thing, but like any player, they weren't always stellar on some nights. So as individuals, they weren't exactly perfect. But as a unified team with a common goal, they won the championship right?

    I like to think of the blazers the same way. Not perfect as individuals, They haven't all reached their individual primes. They have things they all could do better. But in an 82 game season, i can see them eventually, finding a rhythm, finding the chemistry and winning it all (with chauncey). Without him, my confidence in the statement diminishes. But i still believe they can go really far.

    regardless of who plays for us on opening night or WHEN we get in the playoffs this year, one thing we all can agree on, is we just want our favorite team to make us proud! go blazers!
    I am a fan of the future NBA CHAMPIONS ...
  1. I''m OUT!
    I''m OUT!
    Posts: 1059

    Posted 08/29/2010 6:00 AM

    I still think you are crazy if you think we would win a Championship THIS YEAR if we had Chauncey. Even if we had him last year I don't even think we beat the Suns. We are missing something else from our team. Whenever there is a situation where we have a true test against the elite teams we have fallen short. And I think it has a lot to do with Lamarcus disappearing on the boards, settling for long range jumpers and his all around lack of aggression, and less to do with our pg shooting 3's. He just always seems to wilt away when we are being tested. I really hope this year is different, but I won't hold my breath. Although maybe Buck can get through to him because I think it is all mental.

    I also don't think we need a glue guy because we already have one. Brandon. I also think he will do better this year. Last year he was reluctantly getting used to Andre for the first few months, and then we traded away his best friend. I think it was a learning experience and hopefully he is even better now.
    I am a fan of comcast and the blazers making deals that keep screwing us over!! woot!
  1. formalityjoey
    formalityjoey
    Posts: 38

    Posted 08/29/2010 6:57 AM

    Hmm, i could see us  NOT beating the suns last year with chauncey as well. But it's hard when you have a gimpy Broy, no Greg Oden, an uninspired Rudy fernandez, and then Batum reinjures his shoulder.

    I do think LMA needs to improve. But i wouldn't heavily blame him for any short comings from last year. 19 pts and 6 rebounds (in the playoffs) is something i feel reluctant to have on this roster. 6 rebounds sounds like too few and it is, but if you're shooting a lot more bc the rest of the team is relying on you, it's a little harder to get boards. He needs to get more aggressive; that's obvious. But i'm sure that's easier said than done, especially if it isn't in your nature. But it was encouraging to read that article recently that talked of LMA working hard with Bayno to get better. I think if LMA can focus a little more on consistently boxing out and being tough about it, then he can try to raise his REB avg up to about 10/gm which in turn should maintain his ppg, hopefully by giving him more garbage type buckets.  I think that what you (TomL) think LMA lacks in aggressiveness, G.O. helps to make up for that, but he just needs to stay on the floor. LMA and GO compliment each other well.

    LMA is a number 2 guy.  That being said, i think more Blame should be put on the number one guy. Our leader ... I can agree that he had to adjust to playing with Andre. But 21 ppg sounds like under achieving to me. I hate to say that bc i love BRoy's game. I think the NBA really keyed on him and doubled him a lot as expected. But I think that's the part of the season he didn't adjust to extremely well. A learning experience? yes. i hope he's better and ready to do damage this season. I just want to see him ball hog a little bit more when the team needs him to. Get opposing defenders in foul trouble (bc he's good at that) and get to the line a bit more to get his ppg back up to about 24.

    Can't put all the blame on him tho. Nic needs to get better. I think if Nic can avg 12-14 ppg, that would do wonders for the team. And G.O. just needed to be there. So it was a total team "failure" but i'm sure they all know where they need to get better. I have faith that they have/will put in the work to get better, and this season they all will come out just a little bit better, but it will add up to be a lot. Can't wait for this season to start ... 2 months!
    I am a fan of the future NBA CHAMPIONS ...
  1. I''m OUT!
    I''m OUT!
    Posts: 1059

    Posted 08/29/2010 2:24 PM

    Yeah it would help if Batum got starters minutes. And i don't blame Lamarcus for all our shortcomings, I just think he is the one that can put us over the hump, especially if Greg stays healthy and does what he does.
    I am a fan of comcast and the blazers making deals that keep screwing us over!! woot!
  1. Blazers4Life247
    Blazers4Life247
    Posts: 250

    Posted 08/30/2010 2:31 PM

    For the record denver is trying to trade everyone(martin-melo-billups-anderson-am i forgeting someone?) now they want young talent(which we have) and draft picks(which we have) in exchange for these players... they have al harrington to replace him now & want to trade melo now because if they do not then they won't get anything for him. he'll just leave without doing a sign & trade. i've read he wants to accept the offer they have on the table & get traded right away(sign & trade) to either houston rockets, new jersey nets, new york knicks, dallas mavericks, & ive heard sacramento kings also have a chance(dunno how lol)... but with that said i think cho should see what it'll take to get billups here and if the price it to high then keep it moving... and stick with what we have.
    I am a fan of ;]
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 08/30/2010 3:57 PM

    What would everyone be willing to give up for Billups? And don't come with Miller, Rudy and a 1st, because that's not enough to entice Denver to trade their local boy.
    I am a fan of
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/30/2010 5:38 PM

    I'm not as high on Billups as a Blazer as most.  One reason.  Age.  I don't want to be having these PGOTF conversations two or three years down the road again, interupting the chemistry of the team and the pursuit of a championship.  No short-term solutions.  At his age and at this stage of his career, I also question his decision to play in the Worlds during this offseason...more to the point, I question anyone seriously considering him as their starter for any more than a year or two BECAUSE of the miles on the tires AND the decision to play this offseason.  I agree that he is an upgrade to Dre, but for how long?  Again, no short term solutions.  If this franchise is serious about it's chase for the title, "settling" for less than the best will not happen.  Long term is what will be most heavily considered.  Cho will get it done
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. TJ31
    TJ31
    Posts: 190

    Posted 08/30/2010 7:51 PM

    Denver won't trade him especially to a team in their own division.
    I am a fan of
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/30/2010 8:05 PM

    Posted By TJ31 on 08/30/2010 7:51 PM
    Denver won't trade him especially to a team in their own division.
    Exactly...

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. Blazers4Life247
    Blazers4Life247
    Posts: 250

    Posted 08/31/2010 9:25 AM

    yeah thats what i was thinkin too but..... if we get another team to get down with the trade to help denver get more young talent and draft picks u never know whats possible ;]
    I am a fan of ;]
  1. formalityjoey
    formalityjoey
    Posts: 38

    Posted 08/31/2010 10:25 AM

    i agree that Chauncey's age is a downer. I don't want to have the pgotf conversations 3 years from now either. But who are the pgotf candidates that are younger and better than Chauncey, and are actually realistic? I guess in this league nowadays, almost anything is realistic. Just throwing out some names here ... (i'm sure there's a lot i'm going to miss here too)

    Rondo - I love his game. Can't shoot. He's like a better, younger version of Andre. Realistic? Well Bostons core won't be around too much longer. I can imagine Boston building around Rondo when the Big 3 plus Shaq are gone. I'd love to have him.
    Mo - This is realistic, but i dont love his game. He could get the job done.
    Steph - Love his game, But GS will be building around him for years right?
    Monta - I dont want him
    Brooks - I like this guy, realistic, i think so
    Rubio - I dont know what the deal is with him, but i'm sure he'd be loved in portland
    Jennings - too untouchable i think
    Harris - he's a good fit. young. it's possible.
    CP3 - i think he's got other plans
    Jameer - Maybe. I dont like him THAT much
    Tony Parker - I like him, he's 28-29 years old. Kinda injury prone.
    D. Will - Love his game, just not very realistic. I feel like utah will do anything to keep him. But you never know
    J. Wall - Nope

    of these guys, my gut is telling me that Mo, Brooks, Harris, Parker are realistic.

    I like Mo the least. I like brooks and harris equally. I like Parker for his skills but also for his playoff/championship experience. Just like Chauncey. Well, I know i didn't think these thoughts all the way through, but hopefully you all can shed some more light on the topic. No matter what, i still like Andre =)
    I am a fan of the future NBA CHAMPIONS ...
  1. I''m OUT!
    I''m OUT!
    Posts: 1059

    Posted 09/02/2010 4:16 PM

    Give me a break... Mo Williams? Not a step up from Dre, even considering their age. Mo wouldn't even know how to give the ball to Oden. It would be Steve Blake all over again except a tiny bit better but a lot worse than Andre.
    I am a fan of comcast and the blazers making deals that keep screwing us over!! woot!
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